Okay ::whimper:: deep breath. Mounties In Pain, aka. Victoria's Secret, continues and goes into the second, and really altogether worse part
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Re: 2 of 2 (aka, Oops, someone got talky again *g*)spikedluvApril 23 2007, 18:24:03 UTC
Before this episode, Fraser is basically a Mountie doll -- perfect, unemotional, sexless and sympathetic.
I disagree. I think Fraser was far from perfect and emotionless, though it was very subtly done. For example, we often saw him manipulate Ray into helping him, we saw him show emotion in his father's cabin and when he was going to be forced to kill Dief.
I think most writers realize that you can't have a perfect hero because there has to be something for people to relate to. He can't be a complete mess, but he has to have flaws, and I believe that Fraser has them, even if they're not readily apparent at first glance.
it's because most of what he is before that is a construct
If you're suggesting that what he is when he's with Victoria (forgetting his friends and being late for work being just two of the least changes that occur in him), is who Fraser really is, then I'd have to say he's not someone I'd like very much.
I still believe that this behavior is completely OOC for Fraser. Not because Fraser thinks he’s in love with Victoria, because the intensity of their first meeting would most certainly forge a connection (though I’d argue it would neither be a lasting nor a particularly deep connection if not for Fraser’s own loneliness), nor because he knows she’s a criminal and is still willing to stand by her, but because the underlying premise of their entire relationship is Fraser’s guilt (and Victoria’s love/hate and desire for revenge) as he continues to secondguess his own decision to turn Victoria over to the authorities in the first place.
I could understand Fraser feeling bad that the woman he loved had to spend 10 years in jail, but I don’t understand him questioning his own actions in upholding the law. He did not cause her to commit a crime, and if there were extenuating circumstances, as she claimed, they would have been raised at trial and used to either get her off or get her sentence reduced. From what we’ve seen, Fraser has been stalwart when it comes to obeying and upholding the law, to the point where he would have shot and killed Dief himself to do so.
Fraser’s guilt in turning Victoria in and questioning his own actions in upholding the law, that is what I see as Fraser’s underlying OOC behavior, and because of that, everything that follows from it and builds upon it is OOC as well. At least, imo. *g*
Re: 2 of 2 (aka, Oops, someone got talky again *g*)sara_merry99April 23 2007, 18:54:45 UTC
Fraser’s guilt in turning Victoria in and questioning his own actions in upholding the law, that is what I see as Fraser’s underlying OOC behavior, and because of that, everything that follows from it and builds upon it is OOC as well. At least, imo. *g*
::nods nods:: I agree with you totally. And yet this is what so much of the episode hinges on, this feeling of guilt and that he couldn't trust his actions then. ::nods nods::
Re: 2 of 2 (aka, Oops, someone got talky again *g*)charashiApril 23 2007, 19:10:38 UTC
If you read my later comments, I address this point. I think he knows deep down that he did the right thing -- but in doing so, he also blocked any chance of this possible other life, and that's part of the thing that's torturing him so much about it. Like, if he had just let her go, couldn't he have wound up happier?
There's also the fact that it seems to be the first (and maybe only) time he really is questioning the ethics of his actions vis a vis her role in the robbery. It seems like he manages to convince himself that she might have been unfairly harshly punished because she was "forced" into it by Jolly.
I disagree. I think Fraser was far from perfect and emotionless, though it was very subtly done. For example, we often saw him manipulate Ray into helping him, we saw him show emotion in his father's cabin and when he was going to be forced to kill Dief.
I think most writers realize that you can't have a perfect hero because there has to be something for people to relate to. He can't be a complete mess, but he has to have flaws, and I believe that Fraser has them, even if they're not readily apparent at first glance.
it's because most of what he is before that is a construct
If you're suggesting that what he is when he's with Victoria (forgetting his friends and being late for work being just two of the least changes that occur in him), is who Fraser really is, then I'd have to say he's not someone I'd like very much.
I still believe that this behavior is completely OOC for Fraser. Not because Fraser thinks he’s in love with Victoria, because the intensity of their first meeting would most certainly forge a connection (though I’d argue it would neither be a lasting nor a particularly deep connection if not for Fraser’s own loneliness), nor because he knows she’s a criminal and is still willing to stand by her, but because the underlying premise of their entire relationship is Fraser’s guilt (and Victoria’s love/hate and desire for revenge) as he continues to secondguess his own decision to turn Victoria over to the authorities in the first place.
I could understand Fraser feeling bad that the woman he loved had to spend 10 years in jail, but I don’t understand him questioning his own actions in upholding the law. He did not cause her to commit a crime, and if there were extenuating circumstances, as she claimed, they would have been raised at trial and used to either get her off or get her sentence reduced. From what we’ve seen, Fraser has been stalwart when it comes to obeying and upholding the law, to the point where he would have shot and killed Dief himself to do so.
Fraser’s guilt in turning Victoria in and questioning his own actions in upholding the law, that is what I see as Fraser’s underlying OOC behavior, and because of that, everything that follows from it and builds upon it is OOC as well. At least, imo. *g*
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::nods nods:: I agree with you totally. And yet this is what so much of the episode hinges on, this feeling of guilt and that he couldn't trust his actions then. ::nods nods::
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There's also the fact that it seems to be the first (and maybe only) time he really is questioning the ethics of his actions vis a vis her role in the robbery. It seems like he manages to convince himself that she might have been unfairly harshly punished because she was "forced" into it by Jolly.
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