I'm grateful that you have the compulsion to write, and to teach. Because it would be perfectly "normal" never to have undertaken this project, never to have learned, and particularly, never to have spoken. Thank you for all having undertaken, learned, and SPOKEN!
You've made it clear that your father is reticent (to say the least) to discuss/address the history and even his own experiences. Do you think there's any possibility of using this reading project as a lever to open a dialogue with him? Or is that too big a can of worms?
Dad and I have been talking more about this, and this reading project has been helping facilitate that. So yes. But there are more issues tangled up in talking/not-talking than I've been comfortable discussing here, so... yeah, we've been taking it slow.
And I'm glad that my talking about it here is well-received. I'd be talking about it anyway---silence perpetuates the problems, and I've had all the complicity that I can stomach. But it's very nice to know that I have support.
Yeah, the more I get into this reading project, the more I keep finding out how disturbingly good white society is about not knowing things they/we ought to be disturbed about.
It came up during discussion at the Inheriting the Trade reading, too: black communities have successfully kept quite a lot of this knowledge alive, but white communities get a massive fail for what they've managed to forget. One of the downsides of integrating the schools, in fact, is that: the history being taught in black schools was often more accurate than what was being taught in white schools, but the white-schools curriculum was what got kept
( ... )
So the thing with Indian skulls and bones used as fill in the mission walls? Being used as decorative elements? I didn't know. I didn't know.
Same here, until just now; I was reading and part of me wanted to wake up Catherine and say "Remember when you went on a field trip to Mission Dolores? Guess what I just learned," and part of me wants to keep that knowledge from her forever. In a way, I wish I didn't know it, even though I know I should. And I'm sure you get what I mean.
As for Pa Ingalls, I have often wondered how much of the "Indians aren't bad people and we shouldn't be on their land" stuff is post-production editing by Rose Wilder Lane, who certainly knew better than most (white folks) did in the 1930's.
I planned to go back to bed, but I'll be up on the Oyate site for a while.
Yes, I do get what you mean. Knowing about this, talking and teaching about it, is painful. Being one of only a few people talking about it makes it even more painful, because then you have to be ready to discuss why it hasn't been mentioned up 'til now, and why no one seems to know about it even though it's really important.
I meant to say it in the post, but didn't: even though items 2 through 6 are utterly unnecessary, created wholly by handling this topic badly as a society, even handling this well doesn't change item 1: this stuff is ugly. There's a reason the society avoids it. It's just that avoiding it mostly makes it worse
( ... )
Wow. Very, very powerful post. Thanks so much for sharing this part of your life with us.
My hometown borders a reservation and half the population of my school was native. Many of my close friends were native and a lot of my spring and summer weekends were spent at pow-wows and drum circles with friends trying to reclaim their true heritage.
I vividly remember sitting in history class with my friend Dave and we were discussing the text. All across his lined paper he had wrote LIES in a deep, slashing angry hand. My friends certainly set me on the path of not believing the school text/required reading but I didn't come away with much knowledge of their true past.
So sorry this is such a painful thing to work through and thanks again for sharing what you've learned. It's especially useful as I am trying to educate my boys fairly and I don't want to be passing on lies and misconceptions to them.
One of the ugliest things about all this, for me, is that people who would be horrified to be passing on lines and misconceptions have a difficult time finding out what the lies and misconceptions are.
And I'm also not too pleased that kids who actually do know better have to put up with hearing (and sometimes being required to give lip-service to) all of this crap.
In case you haven't poked around Oyate yet, they also have a book catalog (a catalog of good books!), which includes a section on curricula and teachers' materials. Just in case that's useful to you.
I have been poking around the website and was happy to see that we have only read two of the worst books and we have read several of the best books. I always thought Birchbark House is a great antidote to Little House on the Prairie.
We love the Gary Paulsen books which touch on apaches in Canyons, inuit in Dogsong and a number of the other books take place during the civil war from the perspective of MC born into slavery. I am questioning whether his perspective is historically accurate. If you ever run across information for or against Paulsen please let me know
( ... )
Birchbark House is great. :-) I keep hoping she'll do another sequel.
Broken Flute has handy-dandy authors and titles indices in the back, and...
...Gary Paulson, The Night the White Deer Died. It's a not-good review. :-( No other books of his are mentioned. I'll send more details by email.
Also, if I can find it, I'll send an article I ran across a little while back that did side-by-side comparisons of The Slave Dancer, Words by Heart, and Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry and highlighted the differences in treatment that white authors and readers can all too easily miss.
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Thanks for educating me.
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You've made it clear that your father is reticent (to say the least) to discuss/address the history and even his own experiences. Do you think there's any possibility of using this reading project as a lever to open a dialogue with him? Or is that too big a can of worms?
Reply
And I'm glad that my talking about it here is well-received. I'd be talking about it anyway---silence perpetuates the problems, and I've had all the complicity that I can stomach. But it's very nice to know that I have support.
Reply
Reply
Reply
It came up during discussion at the Inheriting the Trade reading, too: black communities have successfully kept quite a lot of this knowledge alive, but white communities get a massive fail for what they've managed to forget. One of the downsides of integrating the schools, in fact, is that: the history being taught in black schools was often more accurate than what was being taught in white schools, but the white-schools curriculum was what got kept ( ... )
Reply
Same here, until just now; I was reading and part of me wanted to wake up Catherine and say "Remember when you went on a field trip to Mission Dolores? Guess what I just learned," and part of me wants to keep that knowledge from her forever. In a way, I wish I didn't know it, even though I know I should. And I'm sure you get what I mean.
As for Pa Ingalls, I have often wondered how much of the "Indians aren't bad people and we shouldn't be on their land" stuff is post-production editing by Rose Wilder Lane, who certainly knew better than most (white folks) did in the 1930's.
I planned to go back to bed, but I'll be up on the Oyate site for a while.
Reply
I meant to say it in the post, but didn't: even though items 2 through 6 are utterly unnecessary, created wholly by handling this topic badly as a society, even handling this well doesn't change item 1: this stuff is ugly. There's a reason the society avoids it. It's just that avoiding it mostly makes it worse ( ... )
Reply
Reply
My hometown borders a reservation and half the population of my school was native. Many of my close friends were native and a lot of my spring and summer weekends were spent at pow-wows and drum circles with friends trying to reclaim their true heritage.
I vividly remember sitting in history class with my friend Dave and we were discussing the text. All across his lined paper he had wrote LIES in a deep, slashing angry hand. My friends certainly set me on the path of not believing the school text/required reading but I didn't come away with much knowledge of their true past.
So sorry this is such a painful thing to work through and thanks again for sharing what you've learned. It's especially useful as I am trying to educate my boys fairly and I don't want to be passing on lies and misconceptions to them.
Reply
And I'm also not too pleased that kids who actually do know better have to put up with hearing (and sometimes being required to give lip-service to) all of this crap.
In case you haven't poked around Oyate yet, they also have a book catalog (a catalog of good books!), which includes a section on curricula and teachers' materials. Just in case that's useful to you.
Reply
We love the Gary Paulsen books which touch on apaches in Canyons, inuit in Dogsong and a number of the other books take place during the civil war from the perspective of MC born into slavery. I am questioning whether his perspective is historically accurate. If you ever run across information for or against Paulsen please let me know ( ... )
Reply
Broken Flute has handy-dandy authors and titles indices in the back, and...
...Gary Paulson, The Night the White Deer Died. It's a not-good review. :-( No other books of his are mentioned. I'll send more details by email.
Also, if I can find it, I'll send an article I ran across a little while back that did side-by-side comparisons of The Slave Dancer, Words by Heart, and Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry and highlighted the differences in treatment that white authors and readers can all too easily miss.
Reply
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