Dear Broadway elitists, and wanna-be Broadway elitists (this means you "omg Rent, Spring Awakening, and Wicked are awesome, but Legally Blonde wtf?" types
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But you've heard my thoughts on Shrek as well - I (kind of) know the movies, and their feel is not musical at all. I saw some Spiderman, and neither is it.
Wicked's story is a little on the melodramatic side (like Shrek & Spiderman, admittedly) but in Wicked, though the characters are in extreme situations, the focus is also on their emotions and the characters are explored as characters and not as chess pieces. In Spiderman (3, I think it was), Peter has the emotional range of a teaspoon. He resents his girlfriend dumping him, he's turned evil because of the Evil Silly Puddy, he Regrets shunning his Dear Friend who is a Dear Friend BECAUSE WE SAY SO, the evil Frankenstein thing is Protecting His Daughter And So It's All Right to Kill People. Not that the characters in Wicked have the greatest values - but at least they're given some kind of range. Maybe we don't agree with everything Fabala does, or fully understand her reasoning (here's where an actor's choices come into play), but she isn't making stock decisions for the sake of the plot. The plot happens because she does suchandsuch, she doesn't make her decision because Otherwise This Movie Would Be Five Hours Long.
As for Phantom, it's an extremely romantic story. Erik's character just demands a score, and he won't take no for an answer. He needs ALW's over-complicated writing. He wants a theatre full of people intent on his every action. Peter just wants to be able to be good. As long as he gets the girl, that is.
For proof of my wannabe Broadway-elitist status...I don't even know what musical no 2 is in reference to.
JH isn't a novella. It's a short. Novellas are a little longer. [/lit nerd] Jekyll/Hyde is a violent character given to extreme fits of belting high H. Peter seems to be to have a Tortured Soul but is too Strong and Silent to break down and just throw a nice fussy soliloquy song out there.
SP doesn't lend itself to musicalization. And what happened? It was revised to death. Never really took off. It lends itself to a small-scale play like The 39 Steps. Wildhorn didn't know what he was doing, and he screwed it up royally. You can't take hte book seriously, and he tried to turn it into a show you were supposed to.
You can't tell me Old Possum's book wasn't just begging to be set to music. All of those poems feel like lyrics to flashy, dancy songs. And oh yeah, doesn't Cats have some really phenomenal dancing in it? Oh, and it doesn't take itself too seriously either.
Spiderman doesn't seem to me to have a great story for music. I could be wrong, as I only saw the third one, but it's a lot more action than interaction. The girlfriend and True Friend are just thrown in so it's not a slasher movie.
Oh, and it's extremely digitalized. So much relies upon Spidey's animated Evil Silly Puddy and stuff. That kind of stunt doesn't work so well onstage. It was one thing for Lion King - the thing rolls over on its back and BEGS to be stylized - but quite another for one where a major selling point was the masterful animation.
And I'm sorry, a little part of me sort of dies from hysteria when I think of the choreographed Dance of the Spider sequences. Dramatic Dance of the Spider sequences, of course. With lots of symbolic character development. And four extra floppy legs sewn onto a wetsuit.
More, because LJ does not love me.wing_of_fancyJuly 19 2008, 23:59:12 UTC
Musicals, or at least the type of muscals I consider Really Worthwhile, focus on the characters and their interactions and their reasons for acting as they do. Spiderman and Shrek don't seem angsty enough, I guess. Spiderman tries but doesn't quite make it because the realtionships are underdeveloped and the characters aren't particularly likeable. Shrek is too much about a joke to hold you over to the next one. Unless you want to play up the Shrek/Fiona dynamic, which would make it much less like the movies. Unfortunately, history does not show much fixing of source material. It shows a lot of failed attempts and a few hits that, by chance, it seems, lent themselves to the medium.
Shrek seems like a new Young Frankenstien. Spiderman, though I don't know it too well, seems like it's trying to be like Lion King but is missing a lot of elements.
Re: More, because LJ does not love me.sandyra_kayJuly 25 2008, 10:03:13 UTC
Sorry I took so long to respond, I'm ADD and this is long. Anyways, it wasn't really directed at you-I was actually reading the Legally Blonde thread on BWW.com and someone-several people, actually-were talking about it, liking it, whatever, and when someone mentioned Spiderman there were several posts in a row to the effect of; "Spiderman? Wtf is Broadway coming to?" They can be done well. Sometimes they aren't. Nobody knows for sure which it will be until they hear the music, see the show, w/e.
Actually, I don't really recall hearing your thoughts on Shrek, only that it's a terrible idea for a musical. But see, I would've never thought Legally Blonde would have made a good musical at first. But upon further thinking, the emotions really do work in its favor (although I still think Serious is one of the Cheesiest Songs Ever).
Again, with Wicked, did you read the book? It was almost indecipherable from the musical. If you had changed the names, I probably wouldn't have known they were the same. There was a lot a lot a lot of creative license taken with it. The book... well, I'll be honest, it was so dull and long that I barely managed to get through it the once, much less go back, reread, and decide if it could've been made a musical using the original story. But a large part of me doubts it. I remember Elphaba speaking to Boq for pages of exposition.
Shrek does play on jokes a lot. However, and this is where creative license comes in, I really think there will be so much more focus on relationships-they're there, just waiting to be played up. Farquaad is power hungry and wants to be married. Fiona wants to find someone who will love her, rescue her, and ignore the whole ogre thing. Shrek... oh, Shrek. He's just a big onion waiting to be peeled (haha, movie joke). He comes across big, bad and ugly. But he wants his home. He wants a place he feels comfortable. Upon further inspection, he wants to be loved but feels like nobody ever could love a big ugly ogre. Even Donkey, with his comic relief and general un-usefulness in the story, has his things. He's utterly supportive of Shrek, even when he's treated like crap. Although I can't remember the name of the character right now, the song "Gaston" is coming to mind.
Spiderman-I can see where you're coming from to an extent, but I highly highly disagree that Peter has only the emotional range of a teaspoon. Even with what you described right there tells me he's not; He resents his girlfriend dumping him, he's turned evil because of the Evil Silly Puddy, he Regrets shunning his Dear Friend who is a Dear Friend BECAUSE WE SAY SO, the evil Frankenstein thing is Protecting His Daughter And So It's All Right to Kill People. He just wants to be happy. But his girlfriend dumped him for absolutly no reason. He wants to be good and follow his grandfather's advice. And yeah, there's always some element of the fight between good and evil in anyone with power.
Re: More, because LJ does not love me.sandyra_kayJuly 25 2008, 10:09:43 UTC
As for Phantom, it's an extremely romantic story. Erik's character just demands a score, and he won't take no for an answer.
It is romantic. But it's also creepy and stalkerish. When reading the book, that was what stood out to me more than anything. Yes, you can see the elements of romance, but I don't find myself rooting for him at any point in the books. I feel pity for him, but the musical makes me almost ship E/c. Leroux never did that.
For proof of my wannabe Broadway-elitist status...I don't even know what musical no 2 is in reference to. Wizard of Oz. lol
JH isn't a novella. It's a short. Novellas are a little longer. [/lit nerd] Oh... then wikipedia lied to me. Omg, how will I ever continue on!!
You can't tell me Old Possum's book wasn't just begging to be set to music. All of those poems feel like lyrics to flashy, dancy songs. And oh yeah, doesn't Cats have some really phenomenal dancing in it? Oh, and it doesn't take itself too seriously either. I've never read all of the book, but I guess. Not sure what the dancing has to do with it? TBH, I don't think Shrek will come even close to taking itself seriously, either.
Spiderman doesn't seem to me to have a great story for music. I could be wrong, as I only saw the third one, but it's a lot more action than interaction. The girlfriend and True Friend are just thrown in so it's not a slasher movie. Okay, then... no more arguing about the Spiderman musical until you've seen the first. The third is, you're right, too much animation and a slasher film. The first is what I'm going off of, and I think it has some usable elements.
And I'm sorry, a little part of me sort of dies from hysteria when I think of the choreographed Dance of the Spider sequences. Dramatic Dance of the Spider sequences, of course. With lots of symbolic character development. And four extra floppy legs sewn onto a wetsuit. *gags* *gags again* I will not get ANYWHERE close to this musical if there are giant spiders dancing on stage. the idea of it is making me sit in a ball in the middle of my bed. But I'm thinking more along the lines of a Defying Gravity-esque flying across the stage triumphantly type song.
Spiderman and Shrek don't seem angsty enough, I guess. Spiderman tries but doesn't quite make it because the realtionships are underdeveloped and the characters aren't particularly likeable. Shrek is too much about a joke to hold you over to the next one. Unless you want to play up the Shrek/Fiona dynamic, which would make it much less like the movies. As I said earlier, I think Shrek will make an excellent musical, once it focuses on the right aspects. And yes, there might be some cheesy jokes made about Broadway or Hollywood. But I don't think it's going to be the focus, at all.
Really, my problem is people who make these judgements based on the source material. If you hear the music, see the show or hear a lot about it, and form an opinion based on that, well, that's your opinion and I'm not one to argue that. But people said Legally Blonde would be terrible and that the movie could never be a good musical, but while it's not the newest Phantom or Cats, it's definitely made a name for itself. And it's fun. We can't just stop enjoying Broadway if all the classic shows disappear and movie to musicals take over. What else is there?
Yes, they can be done. Yes, they can be good.
But you've heard my thoughts on Shrek as well - I (kind of) know the movies, and their feel is not musical at all. I saw some Spiderman, and neither is it.
Wicked's story is a little on the melodramatic side (like Shrek & Spiderman, admittedly) but in Wicked, though the characters are in extreme situations, the focus is also on their emotions and the characters are explored as characters and not as chess pieces. In Spiderman (3, I think it was), Peter has the emotional range of a teaspoon. He resents his girlfriend dumping him, he's turned evil because of the Evil Silly Puddy, he Regrets shunning his Dear Friend who is a Dear Friend BECAUSE WE SAY SO, the evil Frankenstein thing is Protecting His Daughter And So It's All Right to Kill People. Not that the characters in Wicked have the greatest values - but at least they're given some kind of range. Maybe we don't agree with everything Fabala does, or fully understand her reasoning (here's where an actor's choices come into play), but she isn't making stock decisions for the sake of the plot. The plot happens because she does suchandsuch, she doesn't make her decision because Otherwise This Movie Would Be Five Hours Long.
As for Phantom, it's an extremely romantic story. Erik's character just demands a score, and he won't take no for an answer. He needs ALW's over-complicated writing. He wants a theatre full of people intent on his every action. Peter just wants to be able to be good. As long as he gets the girl, that is.
For proof of my wannabe Broadway-elitist status...I don't even know what musical no 2 is in reference to.
JH isn't a novella. It's a short. Novellas are a little longer. [/lit nerd] Jekyll/Hyde is a violent character given to extreme fits of belting high H. Peter seems to be to have a Tortured Soul but is too Strong and Silent to break down and just throw a nice fussy soliloquy song out there.
SP doesn't lend itself to musicalization. And what happened? It was revised to death. Never really took off. It lends itself to a small-scale play like The 39 Steps. Wildhorn didn't know what he was doing, and he screwed it up royally. You can't take hte book seriously, and he tried to turn it into a show you were supposed to.
You can't tell me Old Possum's book wasn't just begging to be set to music. All of those poems feel like lyrics to flashy, dancy songs. And oh yeah, doesn't Cats have some really phenomenal dancing in it? Oh, and it doesn't take itself too seriously either.
Spiderman doesn't seem to me to have a great story for music. I could be wrong, as I only saw the third one, but it's a lot more action than interaction. The girlfriend and True Friend are just thrown in so it's not a slasher movie.
Oh, and it's extremely digitalized. So much relies upon Spidey's animated Evil Silly Puddy and stuff. That kind of stunt doesn't work so well onstage. It was one thing for Lion King - the thing rolls over on its back and BEGS to be stylized - but quite another for one where a major selling point was the masterful animation.
And I'm sorry, a little part of me sort of dies from hysteria when I think of the choreographed Dance of the Spider sequences. Dramatic Dance of the Spider sequences, of course. With lots of symbolic character development. And four extra floppy legs sewn onto a wetsuit.
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Shrek seems like a new Young Frankenstien. Spiderman, though I don't know it too well, seems like it's trying to be like Lion King but is missing a lot of elements.
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They can be done well. Sometimes they aren't. Nobody knows for sure which it will be until they hear the music, see the show, w/e.
Actually, I don't really recall hearing your thoughts on Shrek, only that it's a terrible idea for a musical.
But see, I would've never thought Legally Blonde would have made a good musical at first. But upon further thinking, the emotions really do work in its favor (although I still think Serious is one of the Cheesiest Songs Ever).
Again, with Wicked, did you read the book? It was almost indecipherable from the musical. If you had changed the names, I probably wouldn't have known they were the same. There was a lot a lot a lot of creative license taken with it. The book... well, I'll be honest, it was so dull and long that I barely managed to get through it the once, much less go back, reread, and decide if it could've been made a musical using the original story. But a large part of me doubts it. I remember Elphaba speaking to Boq for pages of exposition.
Shrek does play on jokes a lot. However, and this is where creative license comes in, I really think there will be so much more focus on relationships-they're there, just waiting to be played up. Farquaad is power hungry and wants to be married. Fiona wants to find someone who will love her, rescue her, and ignore the whole ogre thing. Shrek... oh, Shrek. He's just a big onion waiting to be peeled (haha, movie joke). He comes across big, bad and ugly. But he wants his home. He wants a place he feels comfortable. Upon further inspection, he wants to be loved but feels like nobody ever could love a big ugly ogre. Even Donkey, with his comic relief and general un-usefulness in the story, has his things. He's utterly supportive of Shrek, even when he's treated like crap. Although I can't remember the name of the character right now, the song "Gaston" is coming to mind.
Spiderman-I can see where you're coming from to an extent, but I highly highly disagree that Peter has only the emotional range of a teaspoon. Even with what you described right there tells me he's not;
He resents his girlfriend dumping him, he's turned evil because of the Evil Silly Puddy, he Regrets shunning his Dear Friend who is a Dear Friend BECAUSE WE SAY SO, the evil Frankenstein thing is Protecting His Daughter And So It's All Right to Kill People.
He just wants to be happy. But his girlfriend dumped him for absolutly no reason. He wants to be good and follow his grandfather's advice. And yeah, there's always some element of the fight between good and evil in anyone with power.
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It is romantic. But it's also creepy and stalkerish. When reading the book, that was what stood out to me more than anything. Yes, you can see the elements of romance, but I don't find myself rooting for him at any point in the books. I feel pity for him, but the musical makes me almost ship E/c. Leroux never did that.
For proof of my wannabe Broadway-elitist status...I don't even know what musical no 2 is in reference to.
Wizard of Oz. lol
JH isn't a novella. It's a short. Novellas are a little longer. [/lit nerd]
Oh... then wikipedia lied to me. Omg, how will I ever continue on!!
You can't tell me Old Possum's book wasn't just begging to be set to music. All of those poems feel like lyrics to flashy, dancy songs. And oh yeah, doesn't Cats have some really phenomenal dancing in it? Oh, and it doesn't take itself too seriously either.
I've never read all of the book, but I guess. Not sure what the dancing has to do with it?
TBH, I don't think Shrek will come even close to taking itself seriously, either.
Spiderman doesn't seem to me to have a great story for music. I could be wrong, as I only saw the third one, but it's a lot more action than interaction. The girlfriend and True Friend are just thrown in so it's not a slasher movie.
Okay, then... no more arguing about the Spiderman musical until you've seen the first. The third is, you're right, too much animation and a slasher film. The first is what I'm going off of, and I think it has some usable elements.
And I'm sorry, a little part of me sort of dies from hysteria when I think of the choreographed Dance of the Spider sequences. Dramatic Dance of the Spider sequences, of course. With lots of symbolic character development. And four extra floppy legs sewn onto a wetsuit.
*gags* *gags again* I will not get ANYWHERE close to this musical if there are giant spiders dancing on stage. the idea of it is making me sit in a ball in the middle of my bed.
But I'm thinking more along the lines of a Defying Gravity-esque flying across the stage triumphantly type song.
Spiderman and Shrek don't seem angsty enough, I guess. Spiderman tries but doesn't quite make it because the realtionships are underdeveloped and the characters aren't particularly likeable. Shrek is too much about a joke to hold you over to the next one. Unless you want to play up the Shrek/Fiona dynamic, which would make it much less like the movies.
As I said earlier, I think Shrek will make an excellent musical, once it focuses on the right aspects. And yes, there might be some cheesy jokes made about Broadway or Hollywood. But I don't think it's going to be the focus, at all.
Really, my problem is people who make these judgements based on the source material. If you hear the music, see the show or hear a lot about it, and form an opinion based on that, well, that's your opinion and I'm not one to argue that.
But people said Legally Blonde would be terrible and that the movie could never be a good musical, but while it's not the newest Phantom or Cats, it's definitely made a name for itself. And it's fun.
We can't just stop enjoying Broadway if all the classic shows disappear and movie to musicals take over. What else is there?
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