Where did the Western go?

[samedietc]

I am at the beginning of book 4, Wizard and Glass, of Stephen King's The Dark Tower, and I'm enjoying its mix of science fiction, fantasy, horror, chivalric romance, and western genres. (I'm listening to it on tape at work and on my commute.) But it did make me wonder, do generically pure westerns still get written

Comments

[elahadrun]

It would have been space, but Manifest Destiny is dead.

Once we start up a Mars program, or decide that we're going to build shit on the moon or something, we'll again be able to identify with the against-all-odds explorer who ekes his or her way of life out of the unforgiving mountains/plains/methane.

But right now subjugating the land is villainous, not valiant. And certainly subjugating the people of the land is not just criminal but tragic--representations of anything standing in for Native Americans kind of remind people that we'll never really know those civilizations for what they could have been. Most of the things that traditionally made cowboys heroic are no longer considered heroic actions.

The cowboy used to be the symbol of ultimate American freedom--no one to tell you what to do, just you living in nature as its 70% master, 20% partner and 10% victim. Seeing your woma(/e)n on your terms.

Now the cowboy is a symbol of limitation. Brokeback Mtn of course is a movie about the prison of gender expectations, and Firefly is about how a man can't make his own way in this damn world because he's cut out of the system, and the desire to make your own rules disinherits you from all the benefits of that system.

Remember when you asked this awesome question and I responded like I'm writing a goddamn article? Someday I'll probably be an academic BUT I WANT TO LIVE BY MY OWN RULES.

[dr_smith]

Tying your ideas to Ben's reading material, the cowboy is very much a symbol of "the old ways", usually for better and worse all at once. It's a potent character type, if used with care.

[samedietc]

I had a whole post, but then I didn't like it, so I erased it and thought of a different post.

First, I'd like to point out that your examples were both film/tv, which is fine, but goes back to my original question about Western literature. (see my response to vin, which I haven't yet written, but I think will address this.)

Second, I'd like to add to/change your comment on subjugating land. I definitely think you're right that Westerns do usually have some conflict between man and nature, so space fits well there, since space is pretty hostile to human life. But I think the Western is also (and perhaps more importantly) about the conflict of cultures, and usually the conflict of cultures over that natural space--cowboys vs. indians, ranchers vs. farmers, cowboys vs. rustlers.

So I might say that Westerns focus on the conflict between people who want to "civilize" the land and people who want to keep it "uncivilized" (whatever those particular things mean to particular people--have you ever read Zane Grey's Riders of the Purple Sage (1912) where the main villains are Mormons? I also like this definition of Western because it allows us to see 1939's Grapes of Wrath in a Western tradition--where the Indians are replaced by Cops and the settlers who just want to raise some crops on their own land are replaced by ... settlers who just want to raise some crops on their own land.)

the other thing I would want to add about the Western as a genre is that it typically features someone who (as someone said before) has the skills of the out-group but uses them for the protection of the in-group or to forward the in-group's agenda. So, Leatherstocking can track like an Indian, but he's really trying to recover the white daughter so she can marry and start a white family.

(nice reading of Brokeback as a story of the hobbling of the American cowboy--i always though "brokeback" was a signal as to some paralysis)

(although, about the idea that the passing of the Native Americans is tragic, I'd again want to point to Cooper, who was writing all about the tragedy of the passing of some of the Natives--think of the pathos of being the LAST of the Mohicans. so, the idea that "the passing of the Natives is a tragedy" is not a new idea. BUT also, Cooper is writing at a time (1820s, 30s, 40s) before many of the tribes actually have passed--so his "mourning" of the tragedy could be a little hypocritical. instead of mourning the passing, why don't you do something about it, Cooper?)

[elahadrun]

Well, I have to admit that I haven't read any Westerns, unless you count the first Dark Tower book, because the genre has always turned me off. I thought about that for a while yesterday, but I couldn't think of anything from it that would contribute to this discussion. So I'm strictly unfamiliar with anything but the most common pop culture tropes re: Westerns.

Would it be fair to say the conflict is between those who want to "civilize" the land and those who want to keep it wild? "Subjugate" was obviously a loaded term, but "mastering the land" might be appropriate--your Leatherstocking not only understands the land but he uses that understanding in a way the Indians do not, and both of those factors combined make him the hero.

I think in the time of the original Westerns, the passing of the Native Americans is considered an inevitable tragedy. The British Empire is in full swing; it's possible to mourn changes that occur but there's not really a concept of avoiding them. In fact, extinction isn't really a current concept yet. These days people understand that animals become extinct, languages become extinct, and cultures become extinct. And furthermore that these things sometimes have their cause in the actions of other humans.

So I think the Last of the Mohicans was originally artistic rubbernecking--something tragically beautiful to appreciate while you could. And today, that concept feels more participatory. As if you're desensitizing yourself to the extinctions happening around you.

Oh but wait

Walker Texas Ranger is absolutely a western. He has all the freedoms of the cowboy but the authority of the lawman, the abilities of the out-group which he uses for the in-group, conflict over the prosperity of the land by identifying so heavily with Texas... I know you don't have any interest in talking about that but omg Walker is the synthesis of the myth of Western America for Our Modern Times and no wonder people love him goddamn

[samedietc]

I've never seen Walker, but you should totally post a review of it. (I was going to say the same thing about Firefly actually.)

and I wonder when the idea of extinction ("extinction is forever") caught on.