Why I am Pissed at LJ/Six Apart
Though everyone here knows a logical and clear presentation of thoughts is not my strong point, I’m going to attempt to make this as organized as possible.
Last time I encouraged people to sit back and wait, to let Six Apart prove themselves better than we thought. I believed they deserved the chance to live up to their apology.
Obviously, they did not.
_____________________________________
A recap:
Originally, LJ/Six Apart suspended about 500 journals and communities-some of actual pedophiles, but a great deal of fandom private journals and communities-in the interest of “protecting the children” from filthy, nasty pedophiles. Because everyone who writes or draws anything that happens to involve underage people in a potentially sexual situation must be a pedophile.
Oh, no wait, they only meant to suspend journals of actual pedophiles, not fandom-related journals or communities. They apologized for this misstep, then promised it would not happen again and that fandom would not be affected by the sudden urge to purge. They also promised any potential violators would be given a warning, a chance to defend themselves or delete the offending post before suspension occurred.
Then, there came LJ/6A’s attempt to tell the community what their new policies are concerning potentially obscene material, otherwise know as the Clarifications of Doom, and after some community expressions of confusion, More Clarifications of Doom, which really did no better at explaining, while continuing to pat us on our heads and tell us not to worry, all will be well. None of these new policies have been actually implemented into the official ToS, by the way.
Now, however, there have been more deletions. It gets so much better, though. Not only have two artists’ journals been completely deleted for ONE violation each (violations they were not warned of, nor given the chance to delete themselves), but every single one of those artists’ OTHER journals were deleted, and they’ve been banned from ever creating another journal. They are banned from LJ for life. For one alleged “violation.”
ponderosa121 and elaboration are the artists in question, and as you can see, deleted users no longer appear as strikethroughs, but as bolded, no link. Perhaps an immature reaction to the term “Strikethrough 2007”? Or perhaps an attempt to keep us from noticing the new deletions so soon? No one from LJ/6A staff attempted contact either artist before deletion. Despite promises to the contrary, neither were approached about the content of their posts. Despite the fact that, at least in one case, the artwork in question was written for a fanfiction in which the character in question was clearly of legal consenting age.
As the days have passed, fandom and non-fandom connected customers have made their opinions quite clear, yet we have still had no response from anyone.
However, while staff member and apparent LJ/6A spokesperson burr86 did not have time to address the issues at hand, he did have time to post insulting, mocking comments about the protesting LJ customers in a public LJ community. I cannot provide a link to this post and his comments, because the post in question has been deleted. If one is interested in finding it, however, troll through any of the three news posts that have currently been filled to find screen shots.
___________________________________
So what’s the big deal? LJ/6A is a business, not the government. They have the right to decide what they don’t want to host.
True. While many of us do feel their ideas of what constitutes obscene are ridiculous at best and unfairly restrictive at worst, most of us do realize it is their right to decide what to host and not to host on their service.
What we take issue with is their abysmal customer service, the unprofessional and frankly immoral manner of dealing with their users. Not only have they violated their own policies (though I suppose an argument could be made that they couldn’t violate something so vague and confusing), lied to us, and gone back on public statements, they have refused to give any answers to an increasing cry for them.
A business is expected to treat their customers with some modicum of respect, even if they spend their time locked away in their office complaining about the same customers. Anyone who has worked or is working in the service industry understands this. Public displays of contempt such as displayed by burr86 would never, ever be allowed in any respectable business practice.
At the very least, pissing off customers is the surest way to lose them, and no business wants to lose customers.
There is also the issue of LJ/6A apparently appointing themselves the authority on artistic merit, but that deserves its own section.
__________________________________
So what? Isn’t it just those fandom freaks making a big stink?
Actually no, it isn’t. If you troll those comments I mentioned earlier, you’ll find (between cat macros and defiant pictures of porn from the erotic to the ridiculous) many comments from people who state they do not associate themselves with any fandom, yet they still believe what LJ/6A is doing is wrong.
Not only that, you’ll find fandom people who are actually intelligent.
You’ll find people who admit to being survivors of the type of abuse LJ/6A claims to be trying to prevent with their policies, yet these survivors agree with fandom that there can be no harm in fictional images and fictional stories. People who, (funnily enough) despite the abuse suffered still have sensible heads on their shoulders.
Still, most of us actually do understand where our rights begin and end in this situation. All we want is for LJ/6A to make following their policies possible for any reasonable person, and to address the community concerning their recent epic failure.
__________________________________
What’s this about LJ and artistic merit?
Let’s look at a quote from this post in order to examine LJ/6A’s approach to determining artistic merit. My own comments will be inserted in bold and in parentheses.
“An example of some of the questions we'll ask in order to determine if material falls into this category are: is this writing intended to eroticize the sexual abuse of children? (How do you know that is what the author intended if you are of the mind that any work featuring under aged characters can only have one purpose, and if you don’t ask?) Is the fact that someone's underage, a critical element of the work, or is it incidental? (Or maybe it’s both, because the work is intended to do many things at one time? But then again, how can you really tell, if you don’t ask?) Is the language excessively graphic instead of suggestive? (Wait, is this concerning obscenity or artistic merit? Just because it’s obscene to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t have artistic merit for others.) Is there context beyond the sexual situation, or is the material designed just to focus on the sexualization of minors and nothing more? (You said that already, and you still can’t know without asking.) Does the work have an overall message, or is it written only to appeal to an adult's potential sexual fascination with children? (Same question, stated differently, and still completely subjective). These are only some of the questions we'll ask, and we have to consider everything that's reported to us in context and as a whole.”
Right there, all they’ve managed to say is they can’t make any actual policies regarding what is and isn’t acceptable, because it will be on a case-by-case basis.
”Over the years, we've looked at thousands of reported journals and communities, and we rarely have come across a case of creative fiction or fanfic text that warrants review. (So rarely, we’ve had at least two, if not more, over the past four days. Interesting.) If the content is similar in tone, context, feel, and level of explicitness to something that could be found on the shelves of a national chain bookstores, we'll take that into consideration as well. (What? So, if it’s well-written, then that means it isn’t obscene?)”
Based on these, and probably other quotes that can be found littered over the site by various LJ staffers, what is and is not obscene is not only based on the opinion of whatever random LJ staffer(s) happens to get the report, but could change in the future because of their refusal to lay down the final word on what they will or will not accept. Sorry, but saying “we won’t accept obscenity, unless it’s written well or drawn well” just won’t cut it.
In a long-lost comment I have lost track of, it was stated that an LJ staffer tried to tell someone that “technical ability” does not automatically mean something has artistic merit.
Then what, pray tell, DOES? The argument over what is and is not art has been going on since the invention of art! LJ/6A cannot come in and arbitrarily end the argument. They can say “We don’t like this, we don’t want to host this,” but they cannot determine something has no artistic value for an entire community based on their own opinions and biases.
I would like to know who on the LJ/6A staff has a degree in art. Any sort of art degree at all. Works as an art critic? Who on their staff has any sort of official qualifications? Not that this would automatically make them an expert and able to solve the above-mentioned debate. However, I’d be less indignant if I knew someone on their staff had some sort of legitimate qualification beyond “I work for/volunteer with LJ/6A and I think this is gross.”
___________________________________
So, you have a few points. Now what?
I’m getting the hell out of Dodge, most likely. Currently I’m helping with the protest effort (it’s gotten to the point where it’s fun). Someone received a response to an email saying LJ/6A plans to issue a statement in lj_biz sometime this evening.
We’re waiting for this statement, but at this point I don’t think there’s a great deal that can be said to make us trust this company again. I’ve already created a journal at greatestjournal.com that will take the place of this one. No, I don’t post artwork here, and not much fanfiction or writing. Even when I do, it isn’t of the sort that might be in danger. I’m leaving for the principle, because I believe in standing up for what I believe in, and if that means leaving, then it means leaving.
I won’t be deleting this journal just yet, because there are still things to do.
fandom_flies is a project that intends to organize as much of fandom (and people who intend to leave for the principle, like me) as possible into leaving all at the same time and to the same place.
fandom_counts, as always, taking roll for the numbers of fandom present and involved.
___________________________________
Well, there’s my take on everything. Sorry it took so long for me to get it up, but it was very difficult for me to write it and keep myself halfway organized. There are still things I'm sure I should have said, but didn't.
Feel free to have your own opinions, but know now that you’re not going to change mine.
~~**Sailorcelestial**~~
Last time I encouraged people to sit back and wait, to let Six Apart prove themselves better than we thought. I believed they deserved the chance to live up to their apology.
Obviously, they did not.
_____________________________________
A recap:
Originally, LJ/Six Apart suspended about 500 journals and communities-some of actual pedophiles, but a great deal of fandom private journals and communities-in the interest of “protecting the children” from filthy, nasty pedophiles. Because everyone who writes or draws anything that happens to involve underage people in a potentially sexual situation must be a pedophile.
Oh, no wait, they only meant to suspend journals of actual pedophiles, not fandom-related journals or communities. They apologized for this misstep, then promised it would not happen again and that fandom would not be affected by the sudden urge to purge. They also promised any potential violators would be given a warning, a chance to defend themselves or delete the offending post before suspension occurred.
Then, there came LJ/6A’s attempt to tell the community what their new policies are concerning potentially obscene material, otherwise know as the Clarifications of Doom, and after some community expressions of confusion, More Clarifications of Doom, which really did no better at explaining, while continuing to pat us on our heads and tell us not to worry, all will be well. None of these new policies have been actually implemented into the official ToS, by the way.
Now, however, there have been more deletions. It gets so much better, though. Not only have two artists’ journals been completely deleted for ONE violation each (violations they were not warned of, nor given the chance to delete themselves), but every single one of those artists’ OTHER journals were deleted, and they’ve been banned from ever creating another journal. They are banned from LJ for life. For one alleged “violation.”
ponderosa121 and elaboration are the artists in question, and as you can see, deleted users no longer appear as strikethroughs, but as bolded, no link. Perhaps an immature reaction to the term “Strikethrough 2007”? Or perhaps an attempt to keep us from noticing the new deletions so soon? No one from LJ/6A staff attempted contact either artist before deletion. Despite promises to the contrary, neither were approached about the content of their posts. Despite the fact that, at least in one case, the artwork in question was written for a fanfiction in which the character in question was clearly of legal consenting age.
As the days have passed, fandom and non-fandom connected customers have made their opinions quite clear, yet we have still had no response from anyone.
However, while staff member and apparent LJ/6A spokesperson burr86 did not have time to address the issues at hand, he did have time to post insulting, mocking comments about the protesting LJ customers in a public LJ community. I cannot provide a link to this post and his comments, because the post in question has been deleted. If one is interested in finding it, however, troll through any of the three news posts that have currently been filled to find screen shots.
___________________________________
So what’s the big deal? LJ/6A is a business, not the government. They have the right to decide what they don’t want to host.
True. While many of us do feel their ideas of what constitutes obscene are ridiculous at best and unfairly restrictive at worst, most of us do realize it is their right to decide what to host and not to host on their service.
What we take issue with is their abysmal customer service, the unprofessional and frankly immoral manner of dealing with their users. Not only have they violated their own policies (though I suppose an argument could be made that they couldn’t violate something so vague and confusing), lied to us, and gone back on public statements, they have refused to give any answers to an increasing cry for them.
A business is expected to treat their customers with some modicum of respect, even if they spend their time locked away in their office complaining about the same customers. Anyone who has worked or is working in the service industry understands this. Public displays of contempt such as displayed by burr86 would never, ever be allowed in any respectable business practice.
At the very least, pissing off customers is the surest way to lose them, and no business wants to lose customers.
There is also the issue of LJ/6A apparently appointing themselves the authority on artistic merit, but that deserves its own section.
__________________________________
So what? Isn’t it just those fandom freaks making a big stink?
Actually no, it isn’t. If you troll those comments I mentioned earlier, you’ll find (between cat macros and defiant pictures of porn from the erotic to the ridiculous) many comments from people who state they do not associate themselves with any fandom, yet they still believe what LJ/6A is doing is wrong.
Not only that, you’ll find fandom people who are actually intelligent.
You’ll find people who admit to being survivors of the type of abuse LJ/6A claims to be trying to prevent with their policies, yet these survivors agree with fandom that there can be no harm in fictional images and fictional stories. People who, (funnily enough) despite the abuse suffered still have sensible heads on their shoulders.
Still, most of us actually do understand where our rights begin and end in this situation. All we want is for LJ/6A to make following their policies possible for any reasonable person, and to address the community concerning their recent epic failure.
__________________________________
What’s this about LJ and artistic merit?
Let’s look at a quote from this post in order to examine LJ/6A’s approach to determining artistic merit. My own comments will be inserted in bold and in parentheses.
“An example of some of the questions we'll ask in order to determine if material falls into this category are: is this writing intended to eroticize the sexual abuse of children? (How do you know that is what the author intended if you are of the mind that any work featuring under aged characters can only have one purpose, and if you don’t ask?) Is the fact that someone's underage, a critical element of the work, or is it incidental? (Or maybe it’s both, because the work is intended to do many things at one time? But then again, how can you really tell, if you don’t ask?) Is the language excessively graphic instead of suggestive? (Wait, is this concerning obscenity or artistic merit? Just because it’s obscene to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t have artistic merit for others.) Is there context beyond the sexual situation, or is the material designed just to focus on the sexualization of minors and nothing more? (You said that already, and you still can’t know without asking.) Does the work have an overall message, or is it written only to appeal to an adult's potential sexual fascination with children? (Same question, stated differently, and still completely subjective). These are only some of the questions we'll ask, and we have to consider everything that's reported to us in context and as a whole.”
Right there, all they’ve managed to say is they can’t make any actual policies regarding what is and isn’t acceptable, because it will be on a case-by-case basis.
”Over the years, we've looked at thousands of reported journals and communities, and we rarely have come across a case of creative fiction or fanfic text that warrants review. (So rarely, we’ve had at least two, if not more, over the past four days. Interesting.) If the content is similar in tone, context, feel, and level of explicitness to something that could be found on the shelves of a national chain bookstores, we'll take that into consideration as well. (What? So, if it’s well-written, then that means it isn’t obscene?)”
Based on these, and probably other quotes that can be found littered over the site by various LJ staffers, what is and is not obscene is not only based on the opinion of whatever random LJ staffer(s) happens to get the report, but could change in the future because of their refusal to lay down the final word on what they will or will not accept. Sorry, but saying “we won’t accept obscenity, unless it’s written well or drawn well” just won’t cut it.
In a long-lost comment I have lost track of, it was stated that an LJ staffer tried to tell someone that “technical ability” does not automatically mean something has artistic merit.
Then what, pray tell, DOES? The argument over what is and is not art has been going on since the invention of art! LJ/6A cannot come in and arbitrarily end the argument. They can say “We don’t like this, we don’t want to host this,” but they cannot determine something has no artistic value for an entire community based on their own opinions and biases.
I would like to know who on the LJ/6A staff has a degree in art. Any sort of art degree at all. Works as an art critic? Who on their staff has any sort of official qualifications? Not that this would automatically make them an expert and able to solve the above-mentioned debate. However, I’d be less indignant if I knew someone on their staff had some sort of legitimate qualification beyond “I work for/volunteer with LJ/6A and I think this is gross.”
___________________________________
So, you have a few points. Now what?
I’m getting the hell out of Dodge, most likely. Currently I’m helping with the protest effort (it’s gotten to the point where it’s fun). Someone received a response to an email saying LJ/6A plans to issue a statement in lj_biz sometime this evening.
We’re waiting for this statement, but at this point I don’t think there’s a great deal that can be said to make us trust this company again. I’ve already created a journal at greatestjournal.com that will take the place of this one. No, I don’t post artwork here, and not much fanfiction or writing. Even when I do, it isn’t of the sort that might be in danger. I’m leaving for the principle, because I believe in standing up for what I believe in, and if that means leaving, then it means leaving.
I won’t be deleting this journal just yet, because there are still things to do.
fandom_flies is a project that intends to organize as much of fandom (and people who intend to leave for the principle, like me) as possible into leaving all at the same time and to the same place.
fandom_counts, as always, taking roll for the numbers of fandom present and involved.
___________________________________
Well, there’s my take on everything. Sorry it took so long for me to get it up, but it was very difficult for me to write it and keep myself halfway organized. There are still things I'm sure I should have said, but didn't.
Feel free to have your own opinions, but know now that you’re not going to change mine.
~~**Sailorcelestial**~~