I've rambled on about John quite a bit, as you know! Really, my take on it is... as much as we like to see John as a kickass hero, I tend to think that there were moments where he was just a human being, and things FREAKED HIM THE HELL OUT. Like coming back to the motel room to find the Shtriga hovering over Sam. What parent wouldn't go completely apeshit? Yelling. Just losing control. Was it crappy of him to unload on Dean like that? Sure, but who hasn't unloaded on someone they love, and regretted it later?
I think he's someone who was a great soldier (witness the medals), a great hunter, but still someone who was blindsided by Mary's death and the fire, and later on found out that it all might have been prevented if she'd told him the truth. More than likely he found out about Mary's deal and felt much the same as Dean did when John went to Hell for him. Above all, a complicated, loving, obsessive, crafty human being. Which to me is a lot more interesting than if he was simply Rambo The Amazing Demon Killer.
I suspect that Show's attitude towards him has changed because it's Jeremy Carver's vision. That perhaps Mr. Carver isn't being TOLD what to think about John, and what to portray. And that what he's giving us is a logical portrayal (as you've nicely illustrated) of two sons grown into manhood, who are able to see their dad as a complicated human being who loved them, and to forgive him for the missteps he might have made.
And yes, I think the childish demand that Daddy be PERFECT does play into a lot of Sam's earlier viewpoint.
So right with you. (but you knew that!) John is kickass but not always a hero. More like a kickass human.
Like coming back to the motel room to find the Shtriga hovering over Sam. What parent wouldn't go completely apeshit? Yelling. Just losing control. Was it crappy of him to unload on Dean like that? Sure, but who hasn't unloaded on someone they love, and regretted it later?
See that right there? That's what I say! If anyone was to come into that situation, I could understand them going a little bonkers. We are all human, it's what separates us from the things that boys hunt. It doesn't mean that John was bad - just a regular person!
I wonder about this being Jeremy Carver's vision though because Season one's John was so much more likable than following seasons. Did Kripke always want John to be a dick? For some reason, I don't think so. He said early on that the show was about family. Family is Sam and Dean but it is also John (and Bobby too really). I think that maybe - although he says he had a five year plan, it probably was dynamic and fluid and things like John's character, changed throughout the years to increase the angst for main characters like Sam and Dean.
To me it didn't really work.
I mean, angst is okay, and Daddy!issues are fine but for the longest time it seemed like Show wanted to demonize a man who didn't deserve it just to ramp up the emotions.
I think that has finally resolved a bit. Maybe Jeremy is looking at the way that John has been portrayed and is making a conscious effort to change it. I like to think so.
I think he's someone who was a great soldier (witness the medals), a great hunter, but still someone who was blindsided by Mary's death and the fire, and later on found out that it all might have been prevented if she'd told him the truth. More than likely he found out about Mary's deal and felt much the same as Dean did when John went to Hell for him. Above all, a complicated, loving, obsessive, crafty human being. Which to me is a lot more interesting than if he was simply Rambo The Amazing Demon Killer.
I suspect that Show's attitude towards him has changed because it's Jeremy Carver's vision. That perhaps Mr. Carver isn't being TOLD what to think about John, and what to portray. And that what he's giving us is a logical portrayal (as you've nicely illustrated) of two sons grown into manhood, who are able to see their dad as a complicated human being who loved them, and to forgive him for the missteps he might have made.
And yes, I think the childish demand that Daddy be PERFECT does play into a lot of Sam's earlier viewpoint.
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Like coming back to the motel room to find the Shtriga hovering over Sam. What parent wouldn't go completely apeshit? Yelling. Just losing control. Was it crappy of him to unload on Dean like that? Sure, but who hasn't unloaded on someone they love, and regretted it later?
See that right there? That's what I say! If anyone was to come into that situation, I could understand them going a little bonkers. We are all human, it's what separates us from the things that boys hunt. It doesn't mean that John was bad - just a regular person!
I wonder about this being Jeremy Carver's vision though because Season one's John was so much more likable than following seasons. Did Kripke always want John to be a dick? For some reason, I don't think so. He said early on that the show was about family. Family is Sam and Dean but it is also John (and Bobby too really). I think that maybe - although he says he had a five year plan, it probably was dynamic and fluid and things like John's character, changed throughout the years to increase the angst for main characters like Sam and Dean.
To me it didn't really work.
I mean, angst is okay, and Daddy!issues are fine but for the longest time it seemed like Show wanted to demonize a man who didn't deserve it just to ramp up the emotions.
I think that has finally resolved a bit. Maybe Jeremy is looking at the way that John has been portrayed and is making a conscious effort to change it. I like to think so.
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