О, Аргентина, я там завтра буду (правда, всего на пару дней, потом Парагвай и снова Бразилия). Я тут уже несколько дней тусую с французиком из Парижа (dismissed financial industry worker, ha-ha), он уже пятый месяц путешествует по Южной Америке, Аргентина ему понравилась больше всего. Из общения с ним я понял одну совершенно нетривиальную вещь - мы понятия не имеем о самых красивых местах Латинской Америки, потому что никто из наших знакомых там не бывал и мы даже их названия не слышали. Все ездят по попсовым местам (в Аргентине это Буэнос Айрес и Патагония) и считают что все видели, а на самом деле не видели толком ничего. В частности, почти никто не бывает на севере Аргентины и Чили, а там (судя по рассказам back packers) красивее всего. Но у тебя время ограниченно. Если у вас есть 11 дней, то Патагонию вы посмотрите весьма поверхностно (французик там провел больше месяца, и говорит что мало), нужно брать туры уже в местном травел-агентстве. На Буэнос-Айрес можно отвести 3-4 дня, потом оттуда на пароме (несколько часов) в Монтивидео, Уругвай (еще 1-2 дня), потом водопады Игуасу, это пару часов на самолете на север. Я сейчас именно там (правда, с бразильской стороны), красота неописуемая, с Ниагарой даже сравнивать нельзя. Я за время своего путешествия проникся уважением к Frommer's и в меньшей степени LonelyPlanet. Prepare to eat a lot of quality meat. And learn some Spanish, at least basic phrases and numbers, it would help you tremendously. Не забудь что здесь сейчас жаркое лето :)
dimochka, spasibo za idei. zhalko chto my s toboi nikak ne peresechemsya. bylo by zabavno. k sozhaleniu dlya togo chto by poznat' prirodnye krasoty, nuzhno mnogo vremeni - bol'shinstvo nashih vybiraetsya v otpusk na vozmutitel'no korotkoe vremya. eto iskluchaet vozmozhnost' dobirat'sya v "gribnye mesta". ny i potom, sredi nashih znakomuh kucha naroda vlyublena v tango - vot oni i ezdyat eto samoe tango tancevat':)
ya ne dumau chto lyudi dumaut chto oni vse videli; naoborot narod prekrasnoe ponimaet chto kuchu vsego nedosmotretli. i.e. ya obychno pereryvau kuchu info na thorntree i drugih travel forumah. tam mozhno naiti kuchu info ot lyudei kotorye provodyat mesyatsa puteshevstvuya, no opyat'-taki vse upiraetsya vo vremya.
na danyj moment ya pytaus' reshit' kuda nam ehat' iz BUE - rayon Salta (na severe), libo Glaciers v Potagonii, i mozhet byt' na Iguazu. nikak ne mogu reshit' hochu li ya na iguazu voobshe - v principe my videli dostatochno mnogo vodopadov:). pomimo etogo vokrug samogo BUE est' kucha malen'kih interestnyh mestechek, i.e. Colonia v Uruguay, which i would love to check out. Bottom line, i don't have a clue as to where we are going:)
so where are you heading to next? how much time to do you have left? any desire to go to Bolivia - it's my favorite country in SA:)
I'm going to Paraguay tomorrow, for a day or two, and then I'm going back to Sao Paolo or Rio. Bolivia is out of questions for me - I'm traveling with an Israeli passport, and I don't think I can get a visa since Bolivian government hate us. Getting a Bolivian visa with American passport is very difficult - the nearest consulate or embassy is too far away from where I am now. And frankly, I'm getting tired :( The law of diminishing returns kicks in - after a while пропадает острота ощущений. I have eleven days left but I'm considering going back earlier. Believe it or not, New York's cold and snow look very attractive to me right now :)
dimochka, when i traveled in bolivia, there were TONS of israelis who got their visas while traveling in SA. my info is from 2004 though. regardless, if you are feeling tired, the best thing to do is relax and chill:) travel is not about being stressed out:)
hehe, it's supposed to be low 70's this weekend in NY, but it was darn cold for the past few weeks.
how are you planning to spend the remainder of your time?
Things are changing - one month ago Venezuela cut diplomatic ties with Israel (apparently, because of the latest military operation in Gaza), and Evo Morales, Bolivian president and a close friend of Ugo Chavez, promised to do the same. Either way, I can speak a little bit of Portuguese but my Spanish is not-existing :( And it's not fun travelling alone :( The first week in Rio I was with my friends, and it was awesome. After that I'm traveling alone, and even though I meet new people every day, it is not really that much fun to have дружба/роман for a duration of two-three days, before I move to another town. I guess I'm getting mentally old :(
hehe, i don't think you are getting anything-old, it's probably just a personality thing. some people like to be left alone and some are looking for company; neither personality type is superior:) anyways, i'd love to hear your trip report.
fortunately for the bolivians, they live in a pre-feudal system, at least most of the country outside the large cities and wouldn't notice much change. alas, things will be much worse for Veni... the things i hear about Veni are just mindbuggling... too bad, they are very nice people.
Yeah, things are turning pretty nasty for israelis and americans in CA/SA . In Guatemala I've met israeli girls that complained about insults thrown at them in Mexico, after people heared their accent . They/we are still very welcome in Guatemala , and electronic stores "Israel" and car repair shops "Elohaim" and "Shalom" still pepper the country.
Феликс, welcome back! Only now, in Latin America, I understood why in countries that never had any significant Jewish population people hate Israelis. It's because of Israeli tourists and backpackers. They behave obnoxiously, not let locals to cheat them of $2-3, their level of culture is below of that of South Americans, they travel in packs and don't make friends even with fellow travelers from around the world. The nicest tourists are (surprise) Americans
israelis are a crunchy bunch... it will take a very long post to describe my feelings towards them. i also realize that without being one of them, it's nearly impossible to understand them.
Yeah, this is kinda mutual . I remember you describing israeli tourists as supercool, but upon meeting them I didnt quite realize what to talk to them about (I cannot discuss trance scene, you know :) ) , and , frankly, how to approach them - they tend to sit in packs and chat away in hebrew, which I dont speak .
Well, in Mexico Israelis are supposedly mistreated because mexicans align themselves with oppressed populations, especially in Chiapas and Oaxaca, where zapatistas are still active and "revolution is in the air" . There are tons of graffiti with "Viva Palestina Libre" , and such crap, and it's clear to see why Israelis are not their favorite people, as well as us Americans, but with us they have longer and nastier history (for God's sake, we chewed off half of their country for no reason, really).
As far as friendliness/unfriendliness goes, on this trip I came to lame-sounding realization that I should approach people more as individuals . I used to dislike French tourists , admire Israelis and dismiss Americans and Canadians, only to meet some amable French, socially inept Israelis, and very interesting Americans . So there.
Если у вас есть 11 дней, то Патагонию вы посмотрите весьма поверхностно (французик там провел больше месяца, и говорит что мало), нужно брать туры уже в местном травел-агентстве. На Буэнос-Айрес можно отвести 3-4 дня, потом оттуда на пароме (несколько часов) в Монтивидео, Уругвай (еще 1-2 дня), потом водопады Игуасу, это пару часов на самолете на север. Я сейчас именно там (правда, с бразильской стороны), красота неописуемая, с Ниагарой даже сравнивать нельзя.
Я за время своего путешествия проникся уважением к Frommer's и в меньшей степени LonelyPlanet. Prepare to eat a lot of quality meat. And learn some Spanish, at least basic phrases and numbers, it would help you tremendously. Не забудь что здесь сейчас жаркое лето :)
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zhalko chto my s toboi nikak ne peresechemsya. bylo by zabavno.
k sozhaleniu dlya togo chto by poznat' prirodnye krasoty, nuzhno mnogo vremeni - bol'shinstvo nashih vybiraetsya v otpusk na vozmutitel'no korotkoe vremya. eto iskluchaet vozmozhnost' dobirat'sya v "gribnye mesta". ny i potom, sredi nashih znakomuh kucha naroda vlyublena v tango - vot oni i ezdyat eto samoe tango tancevat':)
ya ne dumau chto lyudi dumaut chto oni vse videli; naoborot narod prekrasnoe ponimaet chto kuchu vsego nedosmotretli. i.e. ya obychno pereryvau kuchu info na thorntree i drugih travel forumah. tam mozhno naiti kuchu info ot lyudei kotorye provodyat mesyatsa puteshevstvuya, no opyat'-taki vse upiraetsya vo vremya.
na danyj moment ya pytaus' reshit' kuda nam ehat' iz BUE - rayon Salta (na severe), libo Glaciers v Potagonii, i mozhet byt' na Iguazu. nikak ne mogu reshit' hochu li ya na iguazu voobshe - v principe my videli dostatochno mnogo vodopadov:). pomimo etogo vokrug samogo BUE est' kucha malen'kih interestnyh mestechek, i.e. Colonia v Uruguay, which i would love to check out.
Bottom line, i don't have a clue as to where we are going:)
so where are you heading to next?
how much time to do you have left?
any desire to go to Bolivia - it's my favorite country in SA:)
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And frankly, I'm getting tired :( The law of diminishing returns kicks in - after a while пропадает острота ощущений. I have eleven days left but I'm considering going back earlier. Believe it or not, New York's cold and snow look very attractive to me right now :)
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hehe, it's supposed to be low 70's this weekend in NY, but it was darn cold for the past few weeks.
how are you planning to spend the remainder of your time?
would love to hear your travel stories.
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anyways, i'd love to hear your trip report.
fortunately for the bolivians, they live in a pre-feudal system, at least most of the country outside the large cities and wouldn't notice much change. alas, things will be much worse for Veni... the things i hear about Veni are just mindbuggling... too bad, they are very nice people.
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Only now, in Latin America, I understood why in countries that never had any significant Jewish population people hate Israelis. It's because of Israeli tourists and backpackers. They behave obnoxiously, not let locals to cheat them of $2-3, their level of culture is below of that of South Americans, they travel in packs and don't make friends even with fellow travelers from around the world. The nicest tourists are (surprise) Americans
Reply
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As far as friendliness/unfriendliness goes, on this trip I came to lame-sounding realization that I should approach people more as individuals . I used to dislike French tourists , admire Israelis and dismiss Americans and Canadians, only to meet some amable French, socially inept Israelis, and very interesting Americans . So there.
Reply
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