(no subject)
Been doing some family history work on Jay's family. Sent this email to my dad after a horrifying discovery:
I bought a copy of Legacy and logged in to Family Search to see what they had.
Not only did they have quite a few members of Jay’s family in the database already, a good amount of temple work had been done. Including that of Jay’s parents.
I’m not accusing you of anything - please don’t think that. The submission info says it’s someone totally different - someone I’d never hear of, if the username is the real name, like mine is. It looks like the majority was in the last couple of years, and there’s very little documentation included.
The family is going to be LIVID. I don’t know what to do now.
~W
Here's the email my dad sent me in reply. I'm not sure what I was expecting, being as HE WORKS IN THE FAMILY HISTORY CENTER but whatever:
Just like we said on the phone, Wendy, continue collecting the data and construct the trees and make sure the citations (certificates or copies of them) are included with each person and for all the occurrences.
As for the temple work: names can be submitted by anyone to the several temples for patrons to complete the work via proxy. The patrons do NOT necessarily know the person whose work is being done (and in most cases don’t) and absolutely NO work is done through proxy for the living. Name submitters can be friends of the family or members of the family and with Jay’s family being so large, we (you and I and he) don’t know just which member (or group of family members) may have done it. Like it or not, someone in his family has probably joined the Church and now knows the value of the ordinances to those who have passed on. These actions will NOT require Jay to convert to the Mormon Church and by the same token, he cannot speak for anyone else who desires to join. This is called free agency and applies to the living as well as the spirits on the other side.
When it feels right, show him what you have with the explanation that you are only the messenger and have gathered the data that others have posted to Family Search. I know you will be ok and so will he. Also, it doesn’t seem that Jon would be ignorant of the Temple work that has been done.
Write about this in your Journal. These revelations could be a turning point in your family.
With Love, Dad
Turning point for what, exactly? Me finally leaving the church for good over their shenanigans?
Sent a note to someone on Tumblr who "gets" where I was coming from with regard to Jay's family being baptized into the Mormon church and all, and this is what she sent back (bless her heart, she's so busy and took time to answer ME *fansqueal*)
Oh my GOD I would have been furious if I was in your shoes! Furious and heartsick and, yeah, I totally get how you feel like you’re at a loss for what to do. I’m VERY glad you reached out to me!
BECAUSE LEMME SPLAIN YOU A THING to help you NOT feel guilty. This is what they do, the Mormons, they bulldoze over wishes and do it anyway. A very common phrase is “it’s easier to ask forgiveness than permission.” [hands]
Please know that they have baptized, endowed, and sealed for all time and eternity ADOLF FREAKING HITLER and EVA BRAUN. And to really rub it in, they added about two million names of victims of the Holocaust before the Simon Wiesenthal Center caught wind of it and took them to court.
They would have found a way to do this without your involvement, so let go of your guilt, and don’t let anyone pin it on you. People-specifically retired members-go to genealogy centers and spend all day, EVERY day working on “pulling names.” So let your family know this isn’t on you.
NEXT. You write a cease and desist-style letter to the Mormon church demanding that [full name] be removed from the Church’s records, they they have gone against [person’s] sound mind/body wishes, and you will not only sue them for fraudulating birth/death census data, but will make a point of letting the news know they’re still going against their public statement of not adding names against family members wishes, because their prophet had to state that back in the late 1990s when the Simon Wiesenthal Center very publicly sued and shamed them for this very thing.
UGH. What a mess. I’m so sorry.
-(Name redacted for privacy, not that I think she's that worried about it, but y'know)
Mormons have NO CLUE how people outside the church look at this. Mom commented on the phone that "we haven't taken them away from them", but in a sense, they have. They've violated the essence of who these people are. These are Methodists, and Lutherans, and Catholics, and a few Jews. A good number of them were very firm in their chosen faith. None of Jay's siblings would have EVER agreed to this, and in fact, Jon made me swear that I wouldn't give the information he gave me to the church. And the church ended up with it anyway.
At this point, I'm only a church member for the Ancestry membership.
I bought a copy of Legacy and logged in to Family Search to see what they had.
Not only did they have quite a few members of Jay’s family in the database already, a good amount of temple work had been done. Including that of Jay’s parents.
I’m not accusing you of anything - please don’t think that. The submission info says it’s someone totally different - someone I’d never hear of, if the username is the real name, like mine is. It looks like the majority was in the last couple of years, and there’s very little documentation included.
The family is going to be LIVID. I don’t know what to do now.
~W
Here's the email my dad sent me in reply. I'm not sure what I was expecting, being as HE WORKS IN THE FAMILY HISTORY CENTER but whatever:
Just like we said on the phone, Wendy, continue collecting the data and construct the trees and make sure the citations (certificates or copies of them) are included with each person and for all the occurrences.
As for the temple work: names can be submitted by anyone to the several temples for patrons to complete the work via proxy. The patrons do NOT necessarily know the person whose work is being done (and in most cases don’t) and absolutely NO work is done through proxy for the living. Name submitters can be friends of the family or members of the family and with Jay’s family being so large, we (you and I and he) don’t know just which member (or group of family members) may have done it. Like it or not, someone in his family has probably joined the Church and now knows the value of the ordinances to those who have passed on. These actions will NOT require Jay to convert to the Mormon Church and by the same token, he cannot speak for anyone else who desires to join. This is called free agency and applies to the living as well as the spirits on the other side.
When it feels right, show him what you have with the explanation that you are only the messenger and have gathered the data that others have posted to Family Search. I know you will be ok and so will he. Also, it doesn’t seem that Jon would be ignorant of the Temple work that has been done.
Write about this in your Journal. These revelations could be a turning point in your family.
With Love, Dad
Turning point for what, exactly? Me finally leaving the church for good over their shenanigans?
Sent a note to someone on Tumblr who "gets" where I was coming from with regard to Jay's family being baptized into the Mormon church and all, and this is what she sent back (bless her heart, she's so busy and took time to answer ME *fansqueal*)
Oh my GOD I would have been furious if I was in your shoes! Furious and heartsick and, yeah, I totally get how you feel like you’re at a loss for what to do. I’m VERY glad you reached out to me!
BECAUSE LEMME SPLAIN YOU A THING to help you NOT feel guilty. This is what they do, the Mormons, they bulldoze over wishes and do it anyway. A very common phrase is “it’s easier to ask forgiveness than permission.” [hands]
Please know that they have baptized, endowed, and sealed for all time and eternity ADOLF FREAKING HITLER and EVA BRAUN. And to really rub it in, they added about two million names of victims of the Holocaust before the Simon Wiesenthal Center caught wind of it and took them to court.
They would have found a way to do this without your involvement, so let go of your guilt, and don’t let anyone pin it on you. People-specifically retired members-go to genealogy centers and spend all day, EVERY day working on “pulling names.” So let your family know this isn’t on you.
NEXT. You write a cease and desist-style letter to the Mormon church demanding that [full name] be removed from the Church’s records, they they have gone against [person’s] sound mind/body wishes, and you will not only sue them for fraudulating birth/death census data, but will make a point of letting the news know they’re still going against their public statement of not adding names against family members wishes, because their prophet had to state that back in the late 1990s when the Simon Wiesenthal Center very publicly sued and shamed them for this very thing.
UGH. What a mess. I’m so sorry.
-(Name redacted for privacy, not that I think she's that worried about it, but y'know)
Mormons have NO CLUE how people outside the church look at this. Mom commented on the phone that "we haven't taken them away from them", but in a sense, they have. They've violated the essence of who these people are. These are Methodists, and Lutherans, and Catholics, and a few Jews. A good number of them were very firm in their chosen faith. None of Jay's siblings would have EVER agreed to this, and in fact, Jon made me swear that I wouldn't give the information he gave me to the church. And the church ended up with it anyway.
At this point, I'm only a church member for the Ancestry membership.