The Entertainment Value of Trolls
It's official. I'm a terrible person.
We had a troll come to visit Bonesology last week, and, well, I've had way more fun than I should in dealing with her. People have been asking for some of the details, and since they don't fit well in 140 character tweets, I thought I'd post some of it here.
I expect most of this is relevant for any fandom, or the web in general. The only thing you really need to know about Bones is that the writers used a third party (named Hannah) to get Booth and Brennan together. The Hannah story arc ended in February, 2011 - eighteen months ago - and Booth and Brennan are now together and have daughter.
So last Sunday, this new person shows up. She picks a thread about Booth and Brennan's current relationship and posts a rant, the highlights of which are that the writers completely ruined the show with the Hannah arc, that Booth never loved Brennan, and she deserves someone better. (Remember - they've been a couple now for over a year.) That's her first post on the board.
People respectfully disagreed. She ignored everything everyone said and basically re-posted her original rant. More people commented - disagreeing with her, but still respectfully. A number of people asked some version of, 'why are you still watching the show?' (I asked if she even was watching it. Remember - her words were, "Hart ruined the show." 'Ruined,' past tense.)
Yes. Despite the fact that it'e ruined, she's still watching. She likes Brennan, likes seeing her with her daughter. She just wants the father to be someone other than Booth.
The show is about them equally, so it's pretty much like watching Star Trek for Kirk when you hate Spock.
Wednesday, I emailed her a warning, asking her to watch her tone. I pointed her toward our community guidelines and asked her to read them.
One of the things we insist on is that people respect others' views. This means not posting what's clearly an opinion as Absolute Truth. Saying, 'Booth never loved Brennan' is an absolute statement. Saying, 'I find it impossible to believe he loved her' isn't.
She ignored my warning and posted a list of ten quotes from people who agree with her that the show was ruined by the Hannah arc. To her, this settled it. 'A lot' of people agreed with her, and we're all wrong.
There were two problems with her list. The first is that not one of the quotes was from our board, so she's quoting people (without asking them) all over the internet. (Someone from a different board commented that she posted the same list there.) The second is that she included the date stamps, and every one of the quotes is eighteen months old or older.
Just to make clear - the problem is not her opinions. I don't care if she believes Booth dances around at night in a pink tutu. But I object to her presenting her views as absolute fact and then refusing to read, let alone, interact with anything anyone says in response.
(To tell you the truth, I'm enormously proud of the Bonesology regulars who interacted with her. They remained civil in spite of a lot of provocation.)
Meanwhile, she finally responds to my private message. With another rant to me privately.
She's not posted any more on the board (further proof, to my mind, that she's not actually interested in the show) so I've been pretty tolerant of these exchanges we've been having. I think she wants the last word, and imagine if I stop responding to her, she'll disappear. But so far, I've been unable to stop poking at her. (See? I'm a terrible person.)
I'm torn on whether to actually post any actual quotes from her comments to me. Part of me says that someone who takes quotes from two years ago and posts them all over the internet deserves it, part of me says I should play fair, whether she deserves it or not.
But to summarize some of it...
She says things which aren't true, or are only partially true. When I refute her (these aren't opinions, btw, but things such as quotes by the writers, or observations on her behavior) she ignores me, and/or accuses me of picking on her, or making stuff up. (Obviously, if I can prove what I'm referring to by quoting her, I'm not making it up. But she ignores that.)
According to her, she's being civil and having conversations with people. I pointed out a conversation has to go both ways, and she ignores everything anyone says to her.
She ignored me.
One of my favorite exchanges was when she said we don't allow different opinions on the board.
Here's the thing. We split off from a different forum in November 2010 that had reached the point where only one opinion was allowed: hating the show. People who liked the show were mocked, argued against and eventually forced to post only in the 'Optimists' Thread.' (The owner of the site hadn't watched the show in years and supported this.)
Many different views are represented on our board, including people who actively dislike one of the main characters. But we're not all that friendly (read: not at all) towards people who hate the show, or who don't actually watch it. We figure they have plenty of places to post.
I referenced some of those different views. Her response? "Keep telling yourself that. I prefer to post on boards where different opinions are allowed."
Because I'm nothing if not persistent, I tried again to get her to see that it's not her opinion that's the problem. It's that she's not interested in hearing anyone else's views.
She ignored me.
I also liked this one: "I respect others opinions and I do have civil conversation. I'm not to blame if you can't accept a different opinion. And I'm not a troll just because you didn't convince me, couldn't make me change my mind. Your board isn't any different. When the mods don't like someone's opinion, they just ban them or delete their posts. You're not any different."
(Note: she's not actually been banned from our board, even now. And we haven't deleted any of her posts.)
I pointed out that no one has tried to change her opinion, and that I'm less interested in what she posts than in how she says it. She ignored that and accused me of not reading her posts, of not knowing what she likes or feels, and of trying to stir up trouble.
So I quoted back to her, as civilly and non-judgmentally as possible, the main points she's been making, and asked if she could do the same back about my views. I told her I doubted it very much, because she doesn't appear interested in what anyone else thinks.
She expanded on her views, covering an aspect she'd not gone into on the board, and ended with this: "As far as the rest of your post, it's just what you think. You're entitled to it but so far away from the truth."
I'm not exactly sure what she's talking about. But regardless, she's saying I'm entitled to be wrong ...as her (so far) end point to what's essentially a long explanation of how she respects others' views.
Needless to say, the irony of this escapes her.
On the board, I try always to be fair and respectful. But I'm also thorough (AKA 'extremely long-winded') and can be annoyingly (and I'm sure, irritatingly) persistent in asking people to explain their views and backup their facts.
I know I should ignore her, but I'm having so much fun watching to see what she'll say next. It's all so ridiculous.
Maybe I should tell her how to cause a real meltdown on discussion board? Give her a few pointers for her next attempt? (Starting with: "pick a current topic to go off on.")
See? Told you. I'm a terrible person.
We had a troll come to visit Bonesology last week, and, well, I've had way more fun than I should in dealing with her. People have been asking for some of the details, and since they don't fit well in 140 character tweets, I thought I'd post some of it here.
I expect most of this is relevant for any fandom, or the web in general. The only thing you really need to know about Bones is that the writers used a third party (named Hannah) to get Booth and Brennan together. The Hannah story arc ended in February, 2011 - eighteen months ago - and Booth and Brennan are now together and have daughter.
So last Sunday, this new person shows up. She picks a thread about Booth and Brennan's current relationship and posts a rant, the highlights of which are that the writers completely ruined the show with the Hannah arc, that Booth never loved Brennan, and she deserves someone better. (Remember - they've been a couple now for over a year.) That's her first post on the board.
People respectfully disagreed. She ignored everything everyone said and basically re-posted her original rant. More people commented - disagreeing with her, but still respectfully. A number of people asked some version of, 'why are you still watching the show?' (I asked if she even was watching it. Remember - her words were, "Hart ruined the show." 'Ruined,' past tense.)
Yes. Despite the fact that it'e ruined, she's still watching. She likes Brennan, likes seeing her with her daughter. She just wants the father to be someone other than Booth.
The show is about them equally, so it's pretty much like watching Star Trek for Kirk when you hate Spock.
Wednesday, I emailed her a warning, asking her to watch her tone. I pointed her toward our community guidelines and asked her to read them.
One of the things we insist on is that people respect others' views. This means not posting what's clearly an opinion as Absolute Truth. Saying, 'Booth never loved Brennan' is an absolute statement. Saying, 'I find it impossible to believe he loved her' isn't.
She ignored my warning and posted a list of ten quotes from people who agree with her that the show was ruined by the Hannah arc. To her, this settled it. 'A lot' of people agreed with her, and we're all wrong.
There were two problems with her list. The first is that not one of the quotes was from our board, so she's quoting people (without asking them) all over the internet. (Someone from a different board commented that she posted the same list there.) The second is that she included the date stamps, and every one of the quotes is eighteen months old or older.
Just to make clear - the problem is not her opinions. I don't care if she believes Booth dances around at night in a pink tutu. But I object to her presenting her views as absolute fact and then refusing to read, let alone, interact with anything anyone says in response.
(To tell you the truth, I'm enormously proud of the Bonesology regulars who interacted with her. They remained civil in spite of a lot of provocation.)
Meanwhile, she finally responds to my private message. With another rant to me privately.
She's not posted any more on the board (further proof, to my mind, that she's not actually interested in the show) so I've been pretty tolerant of these exchanges we've been having. I think she wants the last word, and imagine if I stop responding to her, she'll disappear. But so far, I've been unable to stop poking at her. (See? I'm a terrible person.)
I'm torn on whether to actually post any actual quotes from her comments to me. Part of me says that someone who takes quotes from two years ago and posts them all over the internet deserves it, part of me says I should play fair, whether she deserves it or not.
But to summarize some of it...
She says things which aren't true, or are only partially true. When I refute her (these aren't opinions, btw, but things such as quotes by the writers, or observations on her behavior) she ignores me, and/or accuses me of picking on her, or making stuff up. (Obviously, if I can prove what I'm referring to by quoting her, I'm not making it up. But she ignores that.)
According to her, she's being civil and having conversations with people. I pointed out a conversation has to go both ways, and she ignores everything anyone says to her.
She ignored me.
One of my favorite exchanges was when she said we don't allow different opinions on the board.
Here's the thing. We split off from a different forum in November 2010 that had reached the point where only one opinion was allowed: hating the show. People who liked the show were mocked, argued against and eventually forced to post only in the 'Optimists' Thread.' (The owner of the site hadn't watched the show in years and supported this.)
Many different views are represented on our board, including people who actively dislike one of the main characters. But we're not all that friendly (read: not at all) towards people who hate the show, or who don't actually watch it. We figure they have plenty of places to post.
I referenced some of those different views. Her response? "Keep telling yourself that. I prefer to post on boards where different opinions are allowed."
Because I'm nothing if not persistent, I tried again to get her to see that it's not her opinion that's the problem. It's that she's not interested in hearing anyone else's views.
She ignored me.
I also liked this one: "I respect others opinions and I do have civil conversation. I'm not to blame if you can't accept a different opinion. And I'm not a troll just because you didn't convince me, couldn't make me change my mind. Your board isn't any different. When the mods don't like someone's opinion, they just ban them or delete their posts. You're not any different."
(Note: she's not actually been banned from our board, even now. And we haven't deleted any of her posts.)
I pointed out that no one has tried to change her opinion, and that I'm less interested in what she posts than in how she says it. She ignored that and accused me of not reading her posts, of not knowing what she likes or feels, and of trying to stir up trouble.
So I quoted back to her, as civilly and non-judgmentally as possible, the main points she's been making, and asked if she could do the same back about my views. I told her I doubted it very much, because she doesn't appear interested in what anyone else thinks.
She expanded on her views, covering an aspect she'd not gone into on the board, and ended with this: "As far as the rest of your post, it's just what you think. You're entitled to it but so far away from the truth."
I'm not exactly sure what she's talking about. But regardless, she's saying I'm entitled to be wrong ...as her (so far) end point to what's essentially a long explanation of how she respects others' views.
Needless to say, the irony of this escapes her.
On the board, I try always to be fair and respectful. But I'm also thorough (AKA 'extremely long-winded') and can be annoyingly (and I'm sure, irritatingly) persistent in asking people to explain their views and backup their facts.
I know I should ignore her, but I'm having so much fun watching to see what she'll say next. It's all so ridiculous.
Maybe I should tell her how to cause a real meltdown on discussion board? Give her a few pointers for her next attempt? (Starting with: "pick a current topic to go off on.")
See? Told you. I'm a terrible person.