kmfdm kerfuffle
Sorry this is so long; I just kind of wanted to save it all in one place for my own amusement, in case the threads die.
I've got to say, this ongoing KMFDM kerfuffle is one of the funniest/strangest things I've ever seen. Total fandom wank material.
If you're bored, I think this might make for entertaining reading material. KMFDM, if you didn't know, is a pioneering industrial rock band that's been around since the mid-80s.
It seems to go back a long way; the first thing I see is late 2002: a forum administrator getting banned from his own forum by a KMFDM flunkie due to discussions that he wasn't even involved in about the possibility of KMFDM bootlegging.
So then KMFDM announces that they're starting their own record label. On March 2, 2004, they announce on their official site that their first release will be the latest solo effort from frequent KMFDM collaborator Raymond Watts (aka Pig, aka Watts). Two days later Watts himself posts at his official board, The Sick City:
Here's something for you all to spew a little more bile and bullshit over my sweet little nest of vipers. After looking at the various alternatives, despite the usual disinformation there have been offers to release the Watts album through other channels. However, I have decided upon KMFDM Records to be the label for the U.S. exclusively via on-line and retail outlets. There is also going to be an extensive line of merchandise, they may also be handling this. The release date for PIGMARTYR is May 17th.
Then on March 25, KMFDM posts a terse ""KMFDM Records will NOT be releasing Pigmartyr by WATTS." I can't find any explanation, or public comment on this from Watts himself.
So the record comes out instead on UK label Grand Recordings, who put up a website for Watts which looks like total crap made by a 12-year-old, and their official site contains an unflattering bio which portrays him as an alcoholic/drug addict, and contains more information about his collaborator Eden than it does about Watts himself.
RAYMOND WATTS HAS PLAYED IN 30 COUNTRIES, BEEN AT VARIOUS TIMES HUGE IN JAPAN, AMERICA AND EUROPE, AND HAS SOLD A COMBINED TOTAL OF IN EXCESS OF A MILLION RECORDS, SO WHY THE FUCK HAVEN'T YOU HEARD OF HIM?
Raymond Watts has been known variously as Raymond Scaballero in Foetus , an icy addition to Psychic TV , a savage PA destroyer in Einsturzende Neubauten , and a founding member and vocalist of KMFDM .
In between KMFDM dates Raymond headed off to Japan forming 'SCHWEIN' (BMG records) which unexpectedly sold over 100,000 copies of the 1 st album in Japan alone.
This turned out to be a mixed blessing for Raymond whom then ended up having to stay in Tokyo for 6 months living in hotel rooms and becoming more and more dependent on drugs. By the Time he got back to England his Wife had left him and taken his house, which left him homeless and hopelessly depressed. It was in this atmosphere of chronic depression that Raymond and collaborator Eden started work on Raymond's long threatened 'Watts' project at Ranch Apocalypse studios London. After weeks of not sleeping, ingesting way too many drugs and a lot of Brandy, 'Pigmartyr' was finished.
'Watts' no.2 in command 'Eden' led a strange path into music. Aged 24 Eden was hit by a lorry, which broke his back and severed his arm. When Eden awoke in hospital he had absolutely no memory of any of his life before the accident. His family and friends gathered round to try and refresh his memory about his previous life, which to Eden sounded a little dull: 'It was bad enough loosing my memory without then realising that my life had been shit'. So Eden decided to use his experience as a positive one, and re-shape his life in a way that was more appealing. One piece of interesting information he was given by friends was that he was pretty handy in a fight situation, so he took an evening job as a doorman in a Soho strip joint. 6 months later Eden received a large compensation cheque from his accident, which he promptly spent on a complete recording studio set up. After three years minding strippers in the evening and learning the way round his studio in the day he ended up scoring a job as programmer for legendry producer Nellee Hooper. In the process he worked with the likes of Puff Daddy, Bjork and Gwen Stefani amongst others. 'Eden' also plays bass live for 'WATTS'
Eden also makes a general annoyance of himself by posting regularly on the Sick City boards and reassuring fans that the album will be released in the U.S. (it isn't), that they won't have to pay import prices (they do), and then that the album has been shipped (when it hasn't). Fans respond by blaming him for the "bad business advice" that led Watts to ditch KMFDM, and posting his home address and phone number. They dare each other to crank call him, but apparently no one does.
So the album comes out and fans have to pay huge import prices (almost $30 for a CD) to get it shipped from the UK. They are mislead about the shipping date, and many wait over a month and receive nothing.
So in June '04, many people still haven't gotten their orders, and this thread pops up: Grand Recordings = Liars and thieves
Excerpts:
SmackMaster511:
I have e-mailed the following people in regards to not receiving my WATTS CDs yet:
DAVE BIANCHI
NICK YEATMAN
NICK EMBER
INFO@Grandrecordings.com
I have yet gotten a response from any of them.
This is BULLSHIT. I DON’T have money to waste in my life right now. It’s been over 30 days since they have accepted my money. It’s too late to file a claim with Paypal. I have officially been ripped off.
I would love to resolve this professionally. However, no one is responding to my e-mails. All I can do is complain here and hope the message gets to them.
I blew over $50 on these assholes. And they can’t even respond to their fucking e-mail.
This is followed by a cacophany of corresponding stories.
7h3 W1cK3D 0n3: Tell me what happens, because Im still waiting for mine as well.
esclavo: I AND WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR TWO MORE COPIES!!!!! CHUNT ORDERED 3 AND GOT ONLY ONE!!!! ONE OF THOSE WAS MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SmackMaster511:
I finally got a response after writing a very strongly worded letter to watts@grandrecordings.com.I am advised to wait until Friday, and if the postal issue is not resolved, they'll give me a full refund.
I intend to keep the thread up with the harsh title until the everyone has either gotten their shit or a refund.
Gawd. This entire process has made me sick.
CD announced
CD due in April from KMFDM records
CD dropped from KMFDM records.
CD delayed 'till May
May 5: recieve e-mail saying the CDs have been sent
May 17: recieve email saying the CDs haven't really been sent.
May 18: Recieve email saying CDs have finally been sent.
June 8th: Deadline given to a TSC regular for when the CD should be there by. User told to make an international call if the CD doesn't get there by that date.
June 15th: first response after writing a series of E-mails. Only after a very rude and strongly worded e-mail.
Excuse me for being bitter. But this entire process has been bullshit.
At this point, Sascha should remaster the Watts album, and release it on KMFDM records and give Raymond the check. It seems everyone wants WATTS on KMFDM records except Raymond and Eden.
SmackMaster511:
There is only one way to make up for this: a replica of Raymond's cock. I want it autographed, "To my biggest fan, Love, Raymond Watts"
http://www.holisticwisdom.com/article_sex_make_your_own_dildo.htm
Oh yea. When it vibrates, I want it to play Kundalini.
7h3 W1cK3D 0n3:
My new email today.
Quote:Mr...
As far as we at Grand union are aware, NO guarantee was made for exact delivery dates.
The orders For “Watts Pigmartyr” have all been dispatched. As none of these were sent via special delivery (this would have cost considerably more), your order cannot be traced.
I have recently taken this up with Royal Mail, who have been extremely unhelpful. Their claim is there is nothing they can do about the issue.
Although we have dispatched ALL orders, some have apparently failed to turn up. This is not due to anything Watts or Grand union have or haven’t done.
We will however refund you in full if you wish.
We would ask that to confirm our records are correct, you give us the name that the order was placed in, and a correct postal address.
We can then send a cheque.
Yours
Grand Union
sinema666:
I was about to bitch about absolute poor condition my CD came in ( front and back case cracked, CD holster broken and does not hold CD) but FUCK at least I got my mine.
The funny part is that I have absolutely no clue how I managed to get it. Grand put the wrong address #, no apt #, and the wrong zip code. Douchebags. I guess its a good thing I blow my maillady
So after massive bitching and fans begging for refunds/re-sent CDs/U.S. distribution through KMFDM records, Raymond Watts himself finally shows up and blames the U.S. postal service for his record label's shitty behavior:
Withering Shame......
I am very sorry for those of you who have had problems with the delivery of your PIGMARTYR c.d.'s,and for those of you who have, it seems that most of you believe it to be total rubish.
Oh, and of course it must be all EDENs fault because it seems you're all intimate with the reasons why certain deals didn't occur, which, I am sorry to say none of you will ever know,so go on believing everything you read from other sources.
Again it seems myself and all at G.R. have been caught out by all you part time sleuths as wicked coniving fraudsters and all guilt for non delivery could never in a million years be down to your glorious totaly competent nation, certainly never your customs inspectors or your impecable mail delivery men,oh,to even think such a thing about about the You Ass Aye (err...U.S.A) should be strapped to a chair and fried or pumped full of killer drugs,oh how stupid of me you already do that (but only the poor of course).
I'm so sorry for causing upset,for forcing this dreadful album on you,(it's that Stalinist streak in me).
Your so on the button, I really have run out of ideas,I mean it DOESN'T sound like SINSATION, oh sorry,no I'm wrong it's all just recycled,er....I'm just a little confused.
Well,I'll warn you all now, definately don't buy the new PIG album,in fact just to remove the temptation for those of you who need more proof of my terminal decline I'll keep it hidden in a dark and rancid septick tank with all the allure of pulling puss riden piles from a pigs puckerd ass.
I now await with baited breath,the incredible and totaly unforseen accusations of "sulking" and "needs ego stroking",("poking" would be closer to the mark).
Well, sorry to dissapoint you,but you lot are so fucking loopy it's hilarious and a little bit contageous,so I thought I'd vent a little spleen,and hopefuly stoke and poke you little nest of vipers,and like I said...don't believe everything tou read.
But I do hope you get your c.d.s or refunds or whatever,
regards,
Raymond.
Responses are generally pretty respectful, given that it's a Raymond Watts fanboard, along the lines of
Detrik:
I support you Raymond, but GR has fucked over your fans, and thats not right.
So already, we've got some major resentment among fans that Pig/Watts stuff is so hard to get.
So in November, Darren870 posts offering to share a DVD of rare/hard-to-find/unreleased Pig material with other sickcity posters for only the cost of burning/shipping the DVDs.
NOTE TO ALL : I just finised a Pig DVD with a few pig music videos, Scaft live show, and a 45 min live pige show, maybe something else. Im charging basiclly only the price of the DVD and Shipping. If you got something from here already, its just the dvd price. Basiclly its going to be between $4-6 for the cd. That ill cover paypal, shipping and the dvd cost. I have 8 dvds now so first 8 get it, after that ill buy a 25 spindle for the next 25. If only 10 more people want it ill buy only 10 dvds.
Please dont sell these on ebay, I spent the time to make these for you guys and could EASILY get $20-$50 for these. If anyone is going to sell them on ebay its going to be ME. I spent over $200 on all the tapes to find these shows and music videos and spent the time and effort to put them on DVD for you guys instead of just ripping them to my computer.
If someone wants to rip them to there computer be my guest, I just ask no ebay thats all.
So everyone and their sister pops up begging for the Pig DVD.
Then the KMFDM legal department shows up and bitches out Darren, ordering him not to distribute the Pig material.
Darren, or whatever your name is...
It appears that you are about to engage in a pretty big and bad mistake.
Offering a "burned" DVD containing various PIG videos and concert
footage is a severe violation of copyrights.
As PIG's publishers we will take swift action to end any and all
attempts of so blatant a rip-off.
Think again.
KMFDM Inc.
Darren responds asking if he can give the CDs to his forum friends for free; other fans respond expressing their annoyance with KMFDM:
There is no profit for me. In fact im loosing money, by burning out my DVD-r drive, spending gas to get dvds and stuff like that.
This was for you guys and the dogma guys no one else.
Its not like no one can do this. ANYONE can, i just went the first step.
We will see, seems like I've been in contact with all the head honchos in the industrial scene lately...
EDIT : If shit goes down people will get a refund, right now lets just see what happens. Im going to fight for this because thats just stupid. Maybe they will let me hand em out for no charge at all. Then ill just fucking send em to you guys and be out cash.
stealththought:
This is stupid. No one's ripping anyone off here. What's wrong with some fans wanting to see some stuff? If I had the bootleg, I'd still buy an official version if one ever came out. We know that'll never happen though.
SmackMaster511:
You know, I've tried to stay a fan of KMFDM for some time. I just can't bring myself to do it anymore.
If they were to write Darren and say, "Hey, we'd appreciate if you wouldn't do this. We have something pig-based up our sleeve and this could cut into what are already projected as lite sales." I could respect that. But this definitive RIAA-eque, 'If you do it we'll kill you' speil is ridiculous.
I mean, we bought Pigmartyr from a bunch of lying thieves for $27. That goes to show how dedicated we are to supporting Raymond.
se7en veils:
this isn't a "commercial venture". he's not making money, in fact he could be helping pig. weren't all the videos only released on promotional videos? they weren't ever for sale were they? so he's distributing promotional material, what's the issue?
Darren:
Hog- I would give the dvds out for free. Id eat the shipping and eat the price of the dvds if i could get em to you guys. The $50 is not worth it you guys not having them.
Im still waiting for a reply. Its such bullshit how he goes after someone who wants to promote music. Rather then sell burned copies of Operation KMFDM on ebay. Or sell the VHS i have with the vids on it on ebay for over $50. No i want to suply some fans with a dvd they can enjoy since we havnt seen/heard jack shit from raymond in years.
Its such bullshit
Id like to hear from raymond on the matter. Or anyone infact. Why doesnt sascha post here? Explain to all your fans and raymonds fans why you dont want them to have a dvd that would further promote KMFDM....
KMFDM sends threatening emails; Darren decides not to distribute the DVD.
mephisto655:
goddamnit.
this is such rediculous bullshit. fuck you, sascha.
and you know what raymond? fuck you too, if you've got anything to do with this. nothing gets released, the last album is masterfully fucked up, what the hell do you want us to fucking do? after the one two punch of GAM's quiet release and the Watts debacle i'm starting to feel like a battered wife, always running back for more.
infiniteshame:
This is so ridiculous that Sascha has to be the spokesperson for Raymond. It's like suddenly Raymond isn't even competent to stand during his own trial or something. I mean, the guy is not retarded. Get him the fuck on here so we can straighten shit out.
And if Sascha handles Raymond's shit in the US, why haven't we seen anything come out here? Nothing. We've seen nothing released in the US. He's just sitting on this copyright? That is so not cool.
stealththought:
Raymond's totally like Ozzy now. Sascha is like Sharon.
SmackMaster511:
Fuck. No one is profiting from those bootlegs sitting around and collecting dust. If they were available commercially and for a reasonable price, we'd pick them up in a heartbeat (as long as they arn't being sold by liars and thieves, that is).
And don't get me started on the OOP Pig albums...A Stroll in the Pork, A Poke in the Eye, the Contempt LP, Fountain of Miricles single...It sickening the amount of money TSC members have shelled out to get a hold of Raymond's crap. And if Raymond was offering those items, we'd be MORE THAN grateful to buy them from him. The money I've spent acquiring my Pig albums on eBay could have bought Raymond a new liver.
What else are we supposed to do?
And KFMDM continues with the ridiculously threatening emails:
Darren, it's up to you.
We've looked up the boards you've been mouthing off on. No matter how
many times you call it "bullshit", the shit part is on your end of the
stick.
Like it or hate it, it's entirely up to you to decide.
We're just doing what we are contractually obliged to do - looking out
for any irregular activities and collecting his royalties.
You have not yet been attacked - simply alerted.
P.S.
Why did you post this entire discourse on one of the messageboards ?
Are you THAT desperate for some back-up of "your friends" ?
Can't you stand up for your own ?
The fans are not pleased.
se7en veils:
i'm gonna have another beer. then listen to something new.
SmackMaster511:
I've lost faith in music.
Darren870:
Sorry guys, for getting your hopes up so high on some new pig stuff. But I wont be risking anything legally unless raymond give me the okay. So if anyone thats reading this can contact him then people can see this dvd.
All you have my apology,
Darren
Pole00 offers logical advice:
Right now, all you guys did was discuss a bad idea. Leave it at that and from now on, just keep your private trades...private.
And KMFDM continues with the asshattery:
Darren, we are starting to feel sorry for you
now that your worldwide-distribution scheme fell apart. You were
thinking larger than you'd admit, :-)
Had you not blurted it out that blatantly nobody would have known the
better.
Can you not or don't you want to understand that this is nothing
personal ?
How he fuck are we supposed to know who you are and what your
intentions are from reading one bootleg-solicitation post on a board.
You had it coming.
This is what we do, Darren. Protect our shit and the shit of the people
that hire us as their publishers.
You're really blowing this out of proportion by your over reacting.
It's not a big deal unless you make it one.
What's this got to do with KMFDM's fans ? What's this got to do with
anything other than your announcing your intent to burn and sell
bootlegs of PIG on the KMFDMdogma board ? How ignorant can you be ?
BROTHER HEZAKIAH:
It was my understanding that Darren would have made roughly $600,000 US off of the deal and was planning to fly to England to kick Raymond in the nuts. He had to be stopped. It's insanity.
KMFDM again:
Darren, it's the dimwit again. :-)
Read all the mails again. Not a single time did we threaten to sue you.
You are over reacting.
We haven't talked to you in a childish manner, we have quite patiently
maintained a dialogue with you for over 24 hours now.
Ignorant you are, because you don't want to understand what is being
said.
If we wanted to fuck with you, we wouldn't spend disproportionate
amounts of time explaining to you what the real problem is here.
Can you understand that ?
It's a matter of business conduct, of principle, that we can't just
say: okay, go ahead. There are certain rules in the publishing
business. #1 of them is to protect the copyright we are entrusted with.
KMFDM Inc. has no interest nor gains nor any hidden agendas in this
matter, we are simply looking out for Raymond Watts' rights.
If you live in a whorehouse you're gonna get fucked.
If you smoke reefer in front of the precinct you're gonna get busted.
Is that clear enough for you ?
The notion that you instead of Raymond should be the one to provide
fans with some new material is preposterous.
Circulating ripped, burnt material in bad quality is most certainly not
in Raymond's interest.
Unless Raymond wants "to strike a deal", we are not authorized to do
so, we can't just give you permission.
If we did it in this case, we'd have to give permission to everyone
else that wants to do similar things.
You keep mixing and matching topics, intertwining your disappointment
of being caught redhanded with allegations about "our fans".
Assuming that you speak of KMFDM's fans, what's the point you're trying
to make ? Are you insinuating that because on one hand the firm KMFDM
Inc. (an administrative entity) adhere to international publishing
standards and ethics, that because we follow through with what we
contractually guarantee our writers and composers, thereby somehow,
along the way, disenfranchise our fans ? That's bogus Darren and you
know it, way too far from reality.
The band KMFDM on the other hand, by continually offering strict
quality control, reliable services and affordable quality products
keeps expanding their fan base exponentially, and not surprisingly.
This is a tight run ship, thanks to the Kapt'n.
Tubeway Vapor:
Sounds like some administrative fanboy bitch that Sascha hired for shipping and receiving tasks who's trying to prove himself and use his newfound association with the group to feel like he has actual power.
mephisto655:
raymond, i really like your music. i really do. all i want to do is listen to it, cover myself in astroglide and slide around on tile floors. but shit like this makes it REAL FUCKING HARD to stay calm.
8jumper:
Yeah, what the fuck? We're the ones supporting Raymond here... to simply say it's a matter of quality control is ridiculous... How many overpriced imports/ overpriced out of print CD's have we bought? And it's not like the guy selling Poke for $300 on ebay is giving anything to Ray. Someone should teach Ray to use a computer and set up a paypal account. We can send Ray some cash and Darren can send us the DVD's. It's not like they're ever actually going to re-release anything...
Even if they had a plan to, it would take another 7 years before anything actually got done.
So no Pig DVDs, KMFDM fans are disillusioned, and the kerfuffle dies down for a while.
Then on March 11, more than 3 months later, PalerThanGray posts looking for MDFMK bootlegs. (MDFMK is an old disbanded project of Sascha from KMFDM).
Darren responds with a link to download an MDFMK bootleg torrent.
KMFDM jumps on him almost instantly and claims that they are about to sue him:
You really try hard to piss us off don't you ?
Have you no ability to learn and understand that distribution of
bootlegged material constitutes a serious infringement ?
The PIG incident a few weeks ago should have taught you something but
apparently it didn't.
What are we going to do with you Darren Karl Frickel?
Our attorneys will be on this case first thing monday.
Universal records will be notified as well, they're not really friendly
people when it comes to ripping off their copyrights.
KMFDM
Darren:
I AM SICK OF THIS!!! ITS A FUCKING BOOTLEG SHIT RECORDING FUCK MY ASSHOLE!!! I HATE KMFDM, I HATE SASCHA, I HATE RAYMOD WATTS, I HATE FUCKING TIM SKOLD I HATE THEM ALLLLLLL!!!
Tubeway Vapor:
This is utter stupidity. It's bad enough the band is essentially just Sascha and Lucia now, but for Sascha to keep fucking with people over this piddly-ass shit is infuriating. Isn't mdfmk something Sascha just wants to leave buried in the past? Why does he even care? I doubt anyone at Universal will give a shit. They didn't even end up putting out Lucia's solo album. Christ. That's it, I'm just pirating the new KMFDM when it comes out. Support my favorites my ass. I won't be hitting any of the concerts, either. Not like I have for the last few years, anyways. Who wants to see just Sascha jumping around and subbing for all the male vocals on tracks? What a fucking waste of what used to be a great band.
mephisto655:
this reminds me of the part in animal farm, at the end, when all the animals see the pigs that used to lead them in the revolution standing up and wearing suits with the people, and they realized they got sold out.
I wonder if sascha is cognizant of the irony of his actions? he's probably too busy being a dick to notice.
BROTHER HEZAKIAH:
Chevy Chase to the rescue!
Yes, the whole thing is lame, but you shouldn't advertise so publicly.
Employee - "Good morning, Universal Records."
Sascha - "Yes, hello. This Sascha from MDFMK. Rip the system. Throw it away. Some punk kid is giving away bootlegged material of mine and I want you to sue him."
Employee - "From who?"
Sascha - "From MDFMK."
Employee - "What the hell is that?"
Sascha - "Uh, its a band I was in. We were signed to you guys."
Employee - "Okay. Let me look that up..."
*long silence*
Employee - "MDF..."
Sascha - "...MK"
*long pause*
Employee - "Okay, and your name again?"
Sascha - "Sascha Konietzko."
*short pause*
Employee - "Right, Mr. Konetko, it says here that you didn't make our label enough money when you were signed to us and I can tell you right now that it probably wouldn't be in our best financial interests to take legal action, seeing as we'd have to spend money on something that isn't making us money."
Sascha - "But what he is doing is illegal and..."
Employee - "Thanks for your call. Tell you what, we'll send you a free copy of the new Rammstein CD! Would you like that? Their foreign and you're name sounds Russian or something so you'll like it."
Sascha - "His name is Darren-"
Employee - “Okay, bye bye.”
Sascha - “No wait! I my address is…”
*click*
Sascha - “…damn. I really wanted that CD.”
jr5593:
I just got off the phone with my best friend. His $0.02: "If Sascha was any more of a baby he'd have an ass full of Michael Jackson."
Uh, considering the fact that these were live recordings and no money changed hands it wouldn't be worth the filing fee but the fan reaction would be priceless.
PalerThanGray:
All I really have to say is that I legally own almost everything your face is on, Sascha. If you would release a live CD/DVD from the MDFMK tour, this wouldn't have come up. I am not trying to screw you. And neither is the board. Consiering every one of the active members of Sick City legally owns at least a few of your releases, and would probably purchase future ones, I think you'd be at greater loss to affect us like this than to let us listen to our lo-fi concert bootlegs of tours from which we cannot purchase professional live recordings of.
Sascha, leader of KMFDM, responds with a rude email to a fan who complained to him about the legal department's attacks on fans:
Captain Poop Face:
I sent this to sascha:
Threatening fans with lawyers isn't the best way to go about things.
Because of this, I will be parting with everything KMFDM in my house.
"You really try hard to piss us off don't you ?
Have you no ability to learn and understand that distribution of
bootlegged material constitutes a serious infringement ?
The PIG incident a few weeks ago should have taught you something but
apparently it didn't.
What are we going to do with you Darren Karl Frickel?
Our attorneys will be on this case first thing monday.
Universal records will be notified as well, they're not really friendly
people when it comes to ripping off their copyrights.
KMFDM"
full discussion here:
p066.ezboard.com/fsickpeo...=1&stop=20
And he sent back:
SORRY
MUTHA
FUCKA
ADIOS
Tubeway Vapor:
Geez, what a petty man. He's spending too much time trolling boards when he should be focusing on putting out a crappy album that I can pirate.
So Captain Poop Face and Darren870, longtime KMFDM fans who hang out on KMFDM internet boards, announce that they are fed up and are selling their KMFDM collections on ebay:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZpraisetheschwein
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZtardcorewtf
Complete with snippy item descriptions like
If you're a huge KMFDM fan, or just a fan of industrial music in general, pick up these cds at a generously cheap price. XF is a great side project from "mastermind" and "father of industrial-rock" Sascha Konietzko.
Then they troll over to the Ultra Heavy Beat forums, an unofficial board where several band members post.
In a thread about the possibility of KMFDM leather jackets, the boys vent.
Chris:
sascha can eat my nuts. i've already spent enough on his bullshit merchandise and cds.
Darren870:
Agrees with chris!!!....Make your own for fuck sake, quit supporting that man...
JohnnyApathy:
watch out, you make you're own and he'll sue!
Tuscan:
Boy, for you guys who are so soured towards KMFDM merch, lighten the fuck up. Did Sascha kick your dog or something?
Darren870:
No...better...he threatned to sue me....twice...HA!
Of course, a flamewar ensues between current KMFDM fans and disillusioned former KMFDM fans.
Darren870:
Maybe its because you guys only have recently started listening to KMFDM, and getting into the scene, that you don't see what I and others see. People who have been listening to and supporting KMFDM for close to 10 years now...
Wolfie de Reidenhaus:
I get the feeling that Darren's issue was with Sascha threatening him right off the bat instead of asking him to take the link down, like any mature person would.
Chris:
I e-mailed Sascha telling him what a dick he was for threatening to sue a fan over a lousy bootleg. Not even bothering to ask nicely, he came off rather childishly to Darren and me. He acts all high and mighty. Anyway, I then told him I'm parting ways with everything KMFDM in my house because he's a childish brat.
He replied with:
SORRY
MUTHA
FUCKA
ADIOS
Good riddance. It's like discovering your girlfriend sucks others guys cocks on the side and she has no problem with it.
Darren is absolutley, 100% correct and I agree with him. If SK e-mailed me like he did to Darren, I'd do the same thing. Which is pretty much why I'm selling off my KMFDM KRAP!
So if you guys don't "agree" or "care" about the situation, then get off your lazy cheap asses and buy me and Darren's shit off of eBay. We certainly don't want this shit, so give us some fucking money you brown-nosers.
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsassZpraisetheschwein
&
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZtardcorewtf
Meanwhile, on the sick city board, folks begin mocking with thread titles like Torrent Link to Entire KMFDM DIscography containing text like "Just fucking with you, Sascha. You just lost me as a fan when you started harassing someone over a live bootleg from four years ago from a side-project you don't even care about anymore. Even Metallica supports live bootlegs, which means you're below Metallica in my book."
And pooballs changes her sig to read "KMFtm, where your memories of industrial music are raped by lawyers!" They also complain that the KMFDM email newsletter contains nothing but product advertisements.
And so then Sascha himself shows up and posts at the Ultra Heavy Beat forum, as Kapt'n K, in a thread titled SORRY MUTHA FUCKA ADIOS. You should probably go read it there, as it's full of formatting and quotes. Sascha also takes the opportunity, later in the thread, to announce his engagement to KMFDM member Lucia... which makes the kerfuffle thread a rather strange mix of flaming and congratulating.
Sorry for the lengthy post. Since you all are somewhat in the loop on this, here's what was said.
Quote:
On Mar 17, 2005, at 7:07 AM (he's up early) , Chris Windham wrote:
Threatening fans with lawyers isn't the best way to go about things.
Because of this, I will be parting with everything KMFDM in my house.
SORRY
MUTHA
FUCKA
ADIOS
Quote:
On Mar 17, 2005, at 1:30 PM (oh the fervor...), Chris Windham wrote:
It's glorious to see just how immature a man of your age, can really be.
Grow up and don't threaten fans with lawsuits over shitty MDFMK
bootlegs no one is making a dime off of. It's not too hard. If you're
so worried about it, why don't you start selling bootlegs out of the
amazing KMFDM STORE!
since you posted the last email already on UHB, go ahead and post this one now as well, chris.
you are quite mistaken. this is not at all about threatening fans or non-fans alike.
the guy darren got our attention a while back when he offered to sell home-burned PIG dvd's. he may claim that he was going to sell them for cost and only to a few people... but bottom line, he was going to sell them. we here at headquarters happen to be PIG's publishers. it is our job to license and collect royalties, and ultimately to also protect, if necessary, PIG's copyright.
accordingly, our legal dept. sent the guy a nasty mail to make him stop. which he did. sure, he whined and moaned on some message boards, but hell, you all do all the time whine and bitch about something. i have long ago given up getting involved in these boards anyways, with the exception of UHB which is a fine board with a good amount of level-headed, educated and literate, as well as good-mannered (unlike you) people.
anyways, back to the core of this:
recently our legal dept. had to send darren yet another mail when they found him posting about and directly linking to a download site with mdfmk material freely distributed.
old, shitty and not so relevant perhaps, but still something we and universal share the copyrights of. he has thusly become a multiple offender in the book of the legal dept.
if he (and you for that matter) think that as a "fan" he has carte blanche to do whatever he can conceive of, you both are mistaken.
if we wanted darren to be our online distributor for mdfmk and PIG, we would have hired him.
if you can't understand that as a company we have obligations, rights and responsibilities, that we protect our assets and that we reach out to people or other companies that infringe on said assets, if you don't get this, then please take my advice and lose my email address, as i asked you earlier.
i will not tolerate that you personally harrass ME one more time. i am in the midst of recording a new album and i can't be bothered to get personally involved in horseshit like this. don't you think i have better things to do than argue with KMFDM "fans" about their 19-year old mischief ?
if darren wasn't so blatantly obvious about his activities, nobody would've noticed, most likely....
so sell whatever you want... i couldn't care less.
i am selling "this KMFDM shit" because, "boohooo sascha, that dick, he was mean to my friend"
very mature that.
so fuck off
Quote:
On Mar 17, 2005, at 4:46 PM (as if he can't get enough), Chris Windham wrote:
This will be my last mail to you as I will "lose" your address, as per
your wishes.
thanks
Quote:
First of all, thank you for the explanation. It's nice knowing you
take out at least 5 minutes for some fans that have been throwing shit
around. Shit that's certainly been stirred and over-cooked all too
much.
i take all the time that i have to interact, communicate and listen to our fans, anfd they know that.
Quote:
Secondly, I know you're a busy musician trying to earn some coin.
i am not "trying to earn some coin". that is the last thing i'd expect to happen with KMFDM.
it's a work of love.
Quote:
But
I'd be more worried about FUBAR being passed around like an STD during
Woodstock, or some of the other, more recent releases from you, than
an MDFMK bootleg. I had nothing to do with that PIG dvd, but I knew
about it and didn't exactly agree with much of it. Although it was
probably wrong for him to pass along those videos, he needed the money
for DVD-Rs and for shipping costs, so just know that the money he
"received" didn't go into his massively huge bank account that he
acquired for fucking other bands in the ass from their bootlegs.
Smile
Quote:
Third, yes, a lot of my friends think you are a male genital,
including me, but it shouldn't matter because I'm just some fan whose
opinion doesn't mean shit.
trust me, i am.
Quote:
I'm also selling the KMFDM merchandise
because I'm focusing on my future. Unlike everyone else in the glitz
world, I have to give up some things to buy some transportation so
that I can go to school and work.
there's no glitz world here....
Quote:
Lastly, I wish you wouldn't lurk at the forums and pinpoint the true
fans of your work.
wish as you may, i never lurk. i frequently read UHB and post there, and that's that.
all true fans of our work know the basics: don't get caught red-handed, other than that, have fun.
Quote:
We probably set ourselves up for it, and yes you
have duties and copyrights and yada yada yada,
it's called our livelihoods. we are working very very hard to afford ourselves to be KMFDM.
there are 7 of us that need food, housing etc. we tour and record our asses off.
not many bands release records as frequently as we do, document tours and concerts, fun-bits and bloopers, and make available to their fans
absolutely affordable quality merch. you have to admit that there's merch for every budget. have you looked what other bands shirts and tickets
go for these days. don't yadayada me...
Quote:
but we are all fans who
look up to you. We buy (bought) your stuff, we supported you, we
listened and adored, and that's a lot more than others have done.
Sure, we aren't all educated in the business world because we are,
after all, a bunch of 19 year olds bitching about trivial shit, & no
I'm not the brightest kid in the world, but all that mattered to me
was the music, the scene, being a fan. That's what I liked to do best.
I wasn't even aware of KMFDM prior to discovering MDFMK. That makes it
impossible, legally, for me to listen to a live show of you guys back
when you first started to "rip the system", unless you or someone else
releases it? Please...
you can listen to, wank to, even eat as many live show bootlegs as you can handle, just don't peddle them in front of our legal dept's noses.
Quote:
No fan will just sit there until some businessman in a suit gets off
his ass and releases everything.
there's no suits here..... (looks again), nope.
Quote:
Even so, who wouldn't want to share
that stuff with other fans, even if it was a crappy recording. I'm
sure a lot of people who heard it, still appreciate it.
sharing is great, not selling or blatantly linking though.
Quote:
see ya.
good luck on fubar. and the fanbase.
thank you, FUBAR is coming along just dandy and the fanbase and KMFDM are one for all and all for one, as usual.
best
_________________
Kapt'n K
-Napalm yes, creampies no-
(U.Meinhof)
Chris is the first to respond:
Ya beat me to it [Crying or Very sad face]
I was all giddy and ready to post this all over the net.
MrZinc:
I was one step ahead of the Kapt'n, I told this douche bag to fuck off a while ago. I am glad we all on the same page here. I think we need to BLACKBALL this Darren guy.
So Darren, Sascha, and Chris have it out ... honestly, you've got to love a 40+ band leader getting into petty message board flamewars with 19 year old fans on a FANBOARD.
Kapt'n K:
hahaha...blackballing is always fun...
...but maybe not poor little darren (he's only 19)
Darren870:
Do you feel powerful making fun of my age? The sad thing is though I've been listening to your music since I was 10. Thats almost 10 years now, probably the longest here...Yet you still attack my age...
Whatever...
Sell dvd's, hardly...sorry Im not made of money to be able to cough up $5 for every person that wanted them. Wait though, I could of SWORE I sent an e-mail stating I would eat the cost and ship them out for free, yet...nope still nasty ass e-mails from your "legal dept."...
Maybe you should hire someone else to run your legal dept, the man sounds like he is 8, plus his threats are lame. Though you do have a habbit of hiring assholes, your legal rep, your webmasters etc. If you didn't realize these people represent your music...people judge you on what they say and there actions.
Think about it, you know this could of escalated to ... nothing, had your legal department simply sent a nicer e-mail. Maybe you should re-read what they write before its sent out. Or maybe you are watching and reading, hi-fiving the person writing the emails...who knows...
lsyd:
OMFG, the drama the drama the drama. i just wish all these flames would be where they truly belong, at the sick flaming city!!!
Kapt'n K:
Darren, i don't feel powerful at all. I consider myself the luckiest person in the world, actually having made it out of germany, having had a (once in a lifetime) chance given to me by Jim and Danny (the founders of WaxTrax!), by having met and being engaged to Lucia and on and on and on...
I am very humble and, if i may say so, down to earth.
I am not gleeful, I work harder than anyone I know and I feel sometimes like I don't deserve the honors.
Seriously, I bear no grudges, least to you...
Smile, motherfucker !
You may not be the youngest KMFDM (ex-) fan but I admire the notion...
At least Sascha apologizes about the rude legal representative:
I'll let you believe that he is 8, but he ain't. He's not threatening, he follows through, all the way if I want to. But in your case, mistakes were made, I'll take full responsibility, and apologize on everyone's behalf.
Can we be friends again ? I hope so....
And then he offers to buy Darren and Chris' ebay collections:
Darren, you KNOW you were in the wrong, just grow up a tiny bit right now, and all's cool. Both you and chris, let me know how much you want for your collections that you're ebaying, I may just take them off your hands...
Darren posts a civil response:
Meh, if I didn't need the cash id give them out for free. However, I do but will not take you up on that offer. Let ebayers have them, they get a thrill from bidding anways...
And Chris actually apologizes:
Well Mr. Konietzko, congratulations on you and Lucia.
Hope all is well.
I was probably brash & crude earlier, and I appologize for my immaturity and rudeness
Mostly, I'm just amused by the fact that Sascha is getting so personally involved in the minor sharing of bootlegged material among a few devoted fans. Dude, grow up.
Good god.
***
And, sort of unrelated: the latest on Raymond, posted today, from Sascha:
[regarding the Pig DVD] after the pigmartyr dilemma - no thanks. we want no part in releasing anything from that camp
i haven't heard from raymond in many months.
Goddammit. Raymond is the only one I give a crap about.
I've got to say, this ongoing KMFDM kerfuffle is one of the funniest/strangest things I've ever seen. Total fandom wank material.
If you're bored, I think this might make for entertaining reading material. KMFDM, if you didn't know, is a pioneering industrial rock band that's been around since the mid-80s.
It seems to go back a long way; the first thing I see is late 2002: a forum administrator getting banned from his own forum by a KMFDM flunkie due to discussions that he wasn't even involved in about the possibility of KMFDM bootlegging.
So then KMFDM announces that they're starting their own record label. On March 2, 2004, they announce on their official site that their first release will be the latest solo effort from frequent KMFDM collaborator Raymond Watts (aka Pig, aka Watts). Two days later Watts himself posts at his official board, The Sick City:
Here's something for you all to spew a little more bile and bullshit over my sweet little nest of vipers. After looking at the various alternatives, despite the usual disinformation there have been offers to release the Watts album through other channels. However, I have decided upon KMFDM Records to be the label for the U.S. exclusively via on-line and retail outlets. There is also going to be an extensive line of merchandise, they may also be handling this. The release date for PIGMARTYR is May 17th.
Then on March 25, KMFDM posts a terse ""KMFDM Records will NOT be releasing Pigmartyr by WATTS." I can't find any explanation, or public comment on this from Watts himself.
So the record comes out instead on UK label Grand Recordings, who put up a website for Watts which looks like total crap made by a 12-year-old, and their official site contains an unflattering bio which portrays him as an alcoholic/drug addict, and contains more information about his collaborator Eden than it does about Watts himself.
RAYMOND WATTS HAS PLAYED IN 30 COUNTRIES, BEEN AT VARIOUS TIMES HUGE IN JAPAN, AMERICA AND EUROPE, AND HAS SOLD A COMBINED TOTAL OF IN EXCESS OF A MILLION RECORDS, SO WHY THE FUCK HAVEN'T YOU HEARD OF HIM?
Raymond Watts has been known variously as Raymond Scaballero in Foetus , an icy addition to Psychic TV , a savage PA destroyer in Einsturzende Neubauten , and a founding member and vocalist of KMFDM .
In between KMFDM dates Raymond headed off to Japan forming 'SCHWEIN' (BMG records) which unexpectedly sold over 100,000 copies of the 1 st album in Japan alone.
This turned out to be a mixed blessing for Raymond whom then ended up having to stay in Tokyo for 6 months living in hotel rooms and becoming more and more dependent on drugs. By the Time he got back to England his Wife had left him and taken his house, which left him homeless and hopelessly depressed. It was in this atmosphere of chronic depression that Raymond and collaborator Eden started work on Raymond's long threatened 'Watts' project at Ranch Apocalypse studios London. After weeks of not sleeping, ingesting way too many drugs and a lot of Brandy, 'Pigmartyr' was finished.
'Watts' no.2 in command 'Eden' led a strange path into music. Aged 24 Eden was hit by a lorry, which broke his back and severed his arm. When Eden awoke in hospital he had absolutely no memory of any of his life before the accident. His family and friends gathered round to try and refresh his memory about his previous life, which to Eden sounded a little dull: 'It was bad enough loosing my memory without then realising that my life had been shit'. So Eden decided to use his experience as a positive one, and re-shape his life in a way that was more appealing. One piece of interesting information he was given by friends was that he was pretty handy in a fight situation, so he took an evening job as a doorman in a Soho strip joint. 6 months later Eden received a large compensation cheque from his accident, which he promptly spent on a complete recording studio set up. After three years minding strippers in the evening and learning the way round his studio in the day he ended up scoring a job as programmer for legendry producer Nellee Hooper. In the process he worked with the likes of Puff Daddy, Bjork and Gwen Stefani amongst others. 'Eden' also plays bass live for 'WATTS'
Eden also makes a general annoyance of himself by posting regularly on the Sick City boards and reassuring fans that the album will be released in the U.S. (it isn't), that they won't have to pay import prices (they do), and then that the album has been shipped (when it hasn't). Fans respond by blaming him for the "bad business advice" that led Watts to ditch KMFDM, and posting his home address and phone number. They dare each other to crank call him, but apparently no one does.
So the album comes out and fans have to pay huge import prices (almost $30 for a CD) to get it shipped from the UK. They are mislead about the shipping date, and many wait over a month and receive nothing.
So in June '04, many people still haven't gotten their orders, and this thread pops up: Grand Recordings = Liars and thieves
Excerpts:
SmackMaster511:
I have e-mailed the following people in regards to not receiving my WATTS CDs yet:
DAVE BIANCHI
NICK YEATMAN
NICK EMBER
INFO@Grandrecordings.com
I have yet gotten a response from any of them.
This is BULLSHIT. I DON’T have money to waste in my life right now. It’s been over 30 days since they have accepted my money. It’s too late to file a claim with Paypal. I have officially been ripped off.
I would love to resolve this professionally. However, no one is responding to my e-mails. All I can do is complain here and hope the message gets to them.
I blew over $50 on these assholes. And they can’t even respond to their fucking e-mail.
This is followed by a cacophany of corresponding stories.
7h3 W1cK3D 0n3: Tell me what happens, because Im still waiting for mine as well.
esclavo: I AND WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR TWO MORE COPIES!!!!! CHUNT ORDERED 3 AND GOT ONLY ONE!!!! ONE OF THOSE WAS MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SmackMaster511:
I finally got a response after writing a very strongly worded letter to watts@grandrecordings.com.I am advised to wait until Friday, and if the postal issue is not resolved, they'll give me a full refund.
I intend to keep the thread up with the harsh title until the everyone has either gotten their shit or a refund.
Gawd. This entire process has made me sick.
CD announced
CD due in April from KMFDM records
CD dropped from KMFDM records.
CD delayed 'till May
May 5: recieve e-mail saying the CDs have been sent
May 17: recieve email saying the CDs haven't really been sent.
May 18: Recieve email saying CDs have finally been sent.
June 8th: Deadline given to a TSC regular for when the CD should be there by. User told to make an international call if the CD doesn't get there by that date.
June 15th: first response after writing a series of E-mails. Only after a very rude and strongly worded e-mail.
Excuse me for being bitter. But this entire process has been bullshit.
At this point, Sascha should remaster the Watts album, and release it on KMFDM records and give Raymond the check. It seems everyone wants WATTS on KMFDM records except Raymond and Eden.
SmackMaster511:
There is only one way to make up for this: a replica of Raymond's cock. I want it autographed, "To my biggest fan, Love, Raymond Watts"
http://www.holisticwisdom.com/article_sex_make_your_own_dildo.htm
Oh yea. When it vibrates, I want it to play Kundalini.
7h3 W1cK3D 0n3:
My new email today.
Quote:Mr...
As far as we at Grand union are aware, NO guarantee was made for exact delivery dates.
The orders For “Watts Pigmartyr” have all been dispatched. As none of these were sent via special delivery (this would have cost considerably more), your order cannot be traced.
I have recently taken this up with Royal Mail, who have been extremely unhelpful. Their claim is there is nothing they can do about the issue.
Although we have dispatched ALL orders, some have apparently failed to turn up. This is not due to anything Watts or Grand union have or haven’t done.
We will however refund you in full if you wish.
We would ask that to confirm our records are correct, you give us the name that the order was placed in, and a correct postal address.
We can then send a cheque.
Yours
Grand Union
sinema666:
I was about to bitch about absolute poor condition my CD came in ( front and back case cracked, CD holster broken and does not hold CD) but FUCK at least I got my mine.
The funny part is that I have absolutely no clue how I managed to get it. Grand put the wrong address #, no apt #, and the wrong zip code. Douchebags. I guess its a good thing I blow my maillady
So after massive bitching and fans begging for refunds/re-sent CDs/U.S. distribution through KMFDM records, Raymond Watts himself finally shows up and blames the U.S. postal service for his record label's shitty behavior:
Withering Shame......
I am very sorry for those of you who have had problems with the delivery of your PIGMARTYR c.d.'s,and for those of you who have, it seems that most of you believe it to be total rubish.
Oh, and of course it must be all EDENs fault because it seems you're all intimate with the reasons why certain deals didn't occur, which, I am sorry to say none of you will ever know,so go on believing everything you read from other sources.
Again it seems myself and all at G.R. have been caught out by all you part time sleuths as wicked coniving fraudsters and all guilt for non delivery could never in a million years be down to your glorious totaly competent nation, certainly never your customs inspectors or your impecable mail delivery men,oh,to even think such a thing about about the You Ass Aye (err...U.S.A) should be strapped to a chair and fried or pumped full of killer drugs,oh how stupid of me you already do that (but only the poor of course).
I'm so sorry for causing upset,for forcing this dreadful album on you,(it's that Stalinist streak in me).
Your so on the button, I really have run out of ideas,I mean it DOESN'T sound like SINSATION, oh sorry,no I'm wrong it's all just recycled,er....I'm just a little confused.
Well,I'll warn you all now, definately don't buy the new PIG album,in fact just to remove the temptation for those of you who need more proof of my terminal decline I'll keep it hidden in a dark and rancid septick tank with all the allure of pulling puss riden piles from a pigs puckerd ass.
I now await with baited breath,the incredible and totaly unforseen accusations of "sulking" and "needs ego stroking",("poking" would be closer to the mark).
Well, sorry to dissapoint you,but you lot are so fucking loopy it's hilarious and a little bit contageous,so I thought I'd vent a little spleen,and hopefuly stoke and poke you little nest of vipers,and like I said...don't believe everything tou read.
But I do hope you get your c.d.s or refunds or whatever,
regards,
Raymond.
Responses are generally pretty respectful, given that it's a Raymond Watts fanboard, along the lines of
Detrik:
I support you Raymond, but GR has fucked over your fans, and thats not right.
So already, we've got some major resentment among fans that Pig/Watts stuff is so hard to get.
So in November, Darren870 posts offering to share a DVD of rare/hard-to-find/unreleased Pig material with other sickcity posters for only the cost of burning/shipping the DVDs.
NOTE TO ALL : I just finised a Pig DVD with a few pig music videos, Scaft live show, and a 45 min live pige show, maybe something else. Im charging basiclly only the price of the DVD and Shipping. If you got something from here already, its just the dvd price. Basiclly its going to be between $4-6 for the cd. That ill cover paypal, shipping and the dvd cost. I have 8 dvds now so first 8 get it, after that ill buy a 25 spindle for the next 25. If only 10 more people want it ill buy only 10 dvds.
Please dont sell these on ebay, I spent the time to make these for you guys and could EASILY get $20-$50 for these. If anyone is going to sell them on ebay its going to be ME. I spent over $200 on all the tapes to find these shows and music videos and spent the time and effort to put them on DVD for you guys instead of just ripping them to my computer.
If someone wants to rip them to there computer be my guest, I just ask no ebay thats all.
So everyone and their sister pops up begging for the Pig DVD.
Then the KMFDM legal department shows up and bitches out Darren, ordering him not to distribute the Pig material.
Darren, or whatever your name is...
It appears that you are about to engage in a pretty big and bad mistake.
Offering a "burned" DVD containing various PIG videos and concert
footage is a severe violation of copyrights.
As PIG's publishers we will take swift action to end any and all
attempts of so blatant a rip-off.
Think again.
KMFDM Inc.
Darren responds asking if he can give the CDs to his forum friends for free; other fans respond expressing their annoyance with KMFDM:
There is no profit for me. In fact im loosing money, by burning out my DVD-r drive, spending gas to get dvds and stuff like that.
This was for you guys and the dogma guys no one else.
Its not like no one can do this. ANYONE can, i just went the first step.
We will see, seems like I've been in contact with all the head honchos in the industrial scene lately...
EDIT : If shit goes down people will get a refund, right now lets just see what happens. Im going to fight for this because thats just stupid. Maybe they will let me hand em out for no charge at all. Then ill just fucking send em to you guys and be out cash.
stealththought:
This is stupid. No one's ripping anyone off here. What's wrong with some fans wanting to see some stuff? If I had the bootleg, I'd still buy an official version if one ever came out. We know that'll never happen though.
SmackMaster511:
You know, I've tried to stay a fan of KMFDM for some time. I just can't bring myself to do it anymore.
If they were to write Darren and say, "Hey, we'd appreciate if you wouldn't do this. We have something pig-based up our sleeve and this could cut into what are already projected as lite sales." I could respect that. But this definitive RIAA-eque, 'If you do it we'll kill you' speil is ridiculous.
I mean, we bought Pigmartyr from a bunch of lying thieves for $27. That goes to show how dedicated we are to supporting Raymond.
se7en veils:
this isn't a "commercial venture". he's not making money, in fact he could be helping pig. weren't all the videos only released on promotional videos? they weren't ever for sale were they? so he's distributing promotional material, what's the issue?
Darren:
Hog- I would give the dvds out for free. Id eat the shipping and eat the price of the dvds if i could get em to you guys. The $50 is not worth it you guys not having them.
Im still waiting for a reply. Its such bullshit how he goes after someone who wants to promote music. Rather then sell burned copies of Operation KMFDM on ebay. Or sell the VHS i have with the vids on it on ebay for over $50. No i want to suply some fans with a dvd they can enjoy since we havnt seen/heard jack shit from raymond in years.
Its such bullshit
Id like to hear from raymond on the matter. Or anyone infact. Why doesnt sascha post here? Explain to all your fans and raymonds fans why you dont want them to have a dvd that would further promote KMFDM....
KMFDM sends threatening emails; Darren decides not to distribute the DVD.
mephisto655:
goddamnit.
this is such rediculous bullshit. fuck you, sascha.
and you know what raymond? fuck you too, if you've got anything to do with this. nothing gets released, the last album is masterfully fucked up, what the hell do you want us to fucking do? after the one two punch of GAM's quiet release and the Watts debacle i'm starting to feel like a battered wife, always running back for more.
infiniteshame:
This is so ridiculous that Sascha has to be the spokesperson for Raymond. It's like suddenly Raymond isn't even competent to stand during his own trial or something. I mean, the guy is not retarded. Get him the fuck on here so we can straighten shit out.
And if Sascha handles Raymond's shit in the US, why haven't we seen anything come out here? Nothing. We've seen nothing released in the US. He's just sitting on this copyright? That is so not cool.
stealththought:
Raymond's totally like Ozzy now. Sascha is like Sharon.
SmackMaster511:
Fuck. No one is profiting from those bootlegs sitting around and collecting dust. If they were available commercially and for a reasonable price, we'd pick them up in a heartbeat (as long as they arn't being sold by liars and thieves, that is).
And don't get me started on the OOP Pig albums...A Stroll in the Pork, A Poke in the Eye, the Contempt LP, Fountain of Miricles single...It sickening the amount of money TSC members have shelled out to get a hold of Raymond's crap. And if Raymond was offering those items, we'd be MORE THAN grateful to buy them from him. The money I've spent acquiring my Pig albums on eBay could have bought Raymond a new liver.
What else are we supposed to do?
And KFMDM continues with the ridiculously threatening emails:
Darren, it's up to you.
We've looked up the boards you've been mouthing off on. No matter how
many times you call it "bullshit", the shit part is on your end of the
stick.
Like it or hate it, it's entirely up to you to decide.
We're just doing what we are contractually obliged to do - looking out
for any irregular activities and collecting his royalties.
You have not yet been attacked - simply alerted.
P.S.
Why did you post this entire discourse on one of the messageboards ?
Are you THAT desperate for some back-up of "your friends" ?
Can't you stand up for your own ?
The fans are not pleased.
se7en veils:
i'm gonna have another beer. then listen to something new.
SmackMaster511:
I've lost faith in music.
Darren870:
Sorry guys, for getting your hopes up so high on some new pig stuff. But I wont be risking anything legally unless raymond give me the okay. So if anyone thats reading this can contact him then people can see this dvd.
All you have my apology,
Darren
Pole00 offers logical advice:
Right now, all you guys did was discuss a bad idea. Leave it at that and from now on, just keep your private trades...private.
And KMFDM continues with the asshattery:
Darren, we are starting to feel sorry for you
now that your worldwide-distribution scheme fell apart. You were
thinking larger than you'd admit, :-)
Had you not blurted it out that blatantly nobody would have known the
better.
Can you not or don't you want to understand that this is nothing
personal ?
How he fuck are we supposed to know who you are and what your
intentions are from reading one bootleg-solicitation post on a board.
You had it coming.
This is what we do, Darren. Protect our shit and the shit of the people
that hire us as their publishers.
You're really blowing this out of proportion by your over reacting.
It's not a big deal unless you make it one.
What's this got to do with KMFDM's fans ? What's this got to do with
anything other than your announcing your intent to burn and sell
bootlegs of PIG on the KMFDMdogma board ? How ignorant can you be ?
BROTHER HEZAKIAH:
It was my understanding that Darren would have made roughly $600,000 US off of the deal and was planning to fly to England to kick Raymond in the nuts. He had to be stopped. It's insanity.
KMFDM again:
Darren, it's the dimwit again. :-)
Read all the mails again. Not a single time did we threaten to sue you.
You are over reacting.
We haven't talked to you in a childish manner, we have quite patiently
maintained a dialogue with you for over 24 hours now.
Ignorant you are, because you don't want to understand what is being
said.
If we wanted to fuck with you, we wouldn't spend disproportionate
amounts of time explaining to you what the real problem is here.
Can you understand that ?
It's a matter of business conduct, of principle, that we can't just
say: okay, go ahead. There are certain rules in the publishing
business. #1 of them is to protect the copyright we are entrusted with.
KMFDM Inc. has no interest nor gains nor any hidden agendas in this
matter, we are simply looking out for Raymond Watts' rights.
If you live in a whorehouse you're gonna get fucked.
If you smoke reefer in front of the precinct you're gonna get busted.
Is that clear enough for you ?
The notion that you instead of Raymond should be the one to provide
fans with some new material is preposterous.
Circulating ripped, burnt material in bad quality is most certainly not
in Raymond's interest.
Unless Raymond wants "to strike a deal", we are not authorized to do
so, we can't just give you permission.
If we did it in this case, we'd have to give permission to everyone
else that wants to do similar things.
You keep mixing and matching topics, intertwining your disappointment
of being caught redhanded with allegations about "our fans".
Assuming that you speak of KMFDM's fans, what's the point you're trying
to make ? Are you insinuating that because on one hand the firm KMFDM
Inc. (an administrative entity) adhere to international publishing
standards and ethics, that because we follow through with what we
contractually guarantee our writers and composers, thereby somehow,
along the way, disenfranchise our fans ? That's bogus Darren and you
know it, way too far from reality.
The band KMFDM on the other hand, by continually offering strict
quality control, reliable services and affordable quality products
keeps expanding their fan base exponentially, and not surprisingly.
This is a tight run ship, thanks to the Kapt'n.
Tubeway Vapor:
Sounds like some administrative fanboy bitch that Sascha hired for shipping and receiving tasks who's trying to prove himself and use his newfound association with the group to feel like he has actual power.
mephisto655:
raymond, i really like your music. i really do. all i want to do is listen to it, cover myself in astroglide and slide around on tile floors. but shit like this makes it REAL FUCKING HARD to stay calm.
8jumper:
Yeah, what the fuck? We're the ones supporting Raymond here... to simply say it's a matter of quality control is ridiculous... How many overpriced imports/ overpriced out of print CD's have we bought? And it's not like the guy selling Poke for $300 on ebay is giving anything to Ray. Someone should teach Ray to use a computer and set up a paypal account. We can send Ray some cash and Darren can send us the DVD's. It's not like they're ever actually going to re-release anything...
Even if they had a plan to, it would take another 7 years before anything actually got done.
So no Pig DVDs, KMFDM fans are disillusioned, and the kerfuffle dies down for a while.
Then on March 11, more than 3 months later, PalerThanGray posts looking for MDFMK bootlegs. (MDFMK is an old disbanded project of Sascha from KMFDM).
Darren responds with a link to download an MDFMK bootleg torrent.
KMFDM jumps on him almost instantly and claims that they are about to sue him:
You really try hard to piss us off don't you ?
Have you no ability to learn and understand that distribution of
bootlegged material constitutes a serious infringement ?
The PIG incident a few weeks ago should have taught you something but
apparently it didn't.
What are we going to do with you Darren Karl Frickel?
Our attorneys will be on this case first thing monday.
Universal records will be notified as well, they're not really friendly
people when it comes to ripping off their copyrights.
KMFDM
Darren:
I AM SICK OF THIS!!! ITS A FUCKING BOOTLEG SHIT RECORDING FUCK MY ASSHOLE!!! I HATE KMFDM, I HATE SASCHA, I HATE RAYMOD WATTS, I HATE FUCKING TIM SKOLD I HATE THEM ALLLLLLL!!!
Tubeway Vapor:
This is utter stupidity. It's bad enough the band is essentially just Sascha and Lucia now, but for Sascha to keep fucking with people over this piddly-ass shit is infuriating. Isn't mdfmk something Sascha just wants to leave buried in the past? Why does he even care? I doubt anyone at Universal will give a shit. They didn't even end up putting out Lucia's solo album. Christ. That's it, I'm just pirating the new KMFDM when it comes out. Support my favorites my ass. I won't be hitting any of the concerts, either. Not like I have for the last few years, anyways. Who wants to see just Sascha jumping around and subbing for all the male vocals on tracks? What a fucking waste of what used to be a great band.
mephisto655:
this reminds me of the part in animal farm, at the end, when all the animals see the pigs that used to lead them in the revolution standing up and wearing suits with the people, and they realized they got sold out.
I wonder if sascha is cognizant of the irony of his actions? he's probably too busy being a dick to notice.
BROTHER HEZAKIAH:
Chevy Chase to the rescue!
Yes, the whole thing is lame, but you shouldn't advertise so publicly.
Employee - "Good morning, Universal Records."
Sascha - "Yes, hello. This Sascha from MDFMK. Rip the system. Throw it away. Some punk kid is giving away bootlegged material of mine and I want you to sue him."
Employee - "From who?"
Sascha - "From MDFMK."
Employee - "What the hell is that?"
Sascha - "Uh, its a band I was in. We were signed to you guys."
Employee - "Okay. Let me look that up..."
*long silence*
Employee - "MDF..."
Sascha - "...MK"
*long pause*
Employee - "Okay, and your name again?"
Sascha - "Sascha Konietzko."
*short pause*
Employee - "Right, Mr. Konetko, it says here that you didn't make our label enough money when you were signed to us and I can tell you right now that it probably wouldn't be in our best financial interests to take legal action, seeing as we'd have to spend money on something that isn't making us money."
Sascha - "But what he is doing is illegal and..."
Employee - "Thanks for your call. Tell you what, we'll send you a free copy of the new Rammstein CD! Would you like that? Their foreign and you're name sounds Russian or something so you'll like it."
Sascha - "His name is Darren-"
Employee - “Okay, bye bye.”
Sascha - “No wait! I my address is…”
*click*
Sascha - “…damn. I really wanted that CD.”
jr5593:
I just got off the phone with my best friend. His $0.02: "If Sascha was any more of a baby he'd have an ass full of Michael Jackson."
Uh, considering the fact that these were live recordings and no money changed hands it wouldn't be worth the filing fee but the fan reaction would be priceless.
PalerThanGray:
All I really have to say is that I legally own almost everything your face is on, Sascha. If you would release a live CD/DVD from the MDFMK tour, this wouldn't have come up. I am not trying to screw you. And neither is the board. Consiering every one of the active members of Sick City legally owns at least a few of your releases, and would probably purchase future ones, I think you'd be at greater loss to affect us like this than to let us listen to our lo-fi concert bootlegs of tours from which we cannot purchase professional live recordings of.
Sascha, leader of KMFDM, responds with a rude email to a fan who complained to him about the legal department's attacks on fans:
Captain Poop Face:
I sent this to sascha:
Threatening fans with lawyers isn't the best way to go about things.
Because of this, I will be parting with everything KMFDM in my house.
"You really try hard to piss us off don't you ?
Have you no ability to learn and understand that distribution of
bootlegged material constitutes a serious infringement ?
The PIG incident a few weeks ago should have taught you something but
apparently it didn't.
What are we going to do with you Darren Karl Frickel?
Our attorneys will be on this case first thing monday.
Universal records will be notified as well, they're not really friendly
people when it comes to ripping off their copyrights.
KMFDM"
full discussion here:
p066.ezboard.com/fsickpeo...=1&stop=20
And he sent back:
SORRY
MUTHA
FUCKA
ADIOS
Tubeway Vapor:
Geez, what a petty man. He's spending too much time trolling boards when he should be focusing on putting out a crappy album that I can pirate.
So Captain Poop Face and Darren870, longtime KMFDM fans who hang out on KMFDM internet boards, announce that they are fed up and are selling their KMFDM collections on ebay:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZpraisetheschwein
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZtardcorewtf
Complete with snippy item descriptions like
If you're a huge KMFDM fan, or just a fan of industrial music in general, pick up these cds at a generously cheap price. XF is a great side project from "mastermind" and "father of industrial-rock" Sascha Konietzko.
Then they troll over to the Ultra Heavy Beat forums, an unofficial board where several band members post.
In a thread about the possibility of KMFDM leather jackets, the boys vent.
Chris:
sascha can eat my nuts. i've already spent enough on his bullshit merchandise and cds.
Darren870:
Agrees with chris!!!....Make your own for fuck sake, quit supporting that man...
JohnnyApathy:
watch out, you make you're own and he'll sue!
Tuscan:
Boy, for you guys who are so soured towards KMFDM merch, lighten the fuck up. Did Sascha kick your dog or something?
Darren870:
No...better...he threatned to sue me....twice...HA!
Of course, a flamewar ensues between current KMFDM fans and disillusioned former KMFDM fans.
Darren870:
Maybe its because you guys only have recently started listening to KMFDM, and getting into the scene, that you don't see what I and others see. People who have been listening to and supporting KMFDM for close to 10 years now...
Wolfie de Reidenhaus:
I get the feeling that Darren's issue was with Sascha threatening him right off the bat instead of asking him to take the link down, like any mature person would.
Chris:
I e-mailed Sascha telling him what a dick he was for threatening to sue a fan over a lousy bootleg. Not even bothering to ask nicely, he came off rather childishly to Darren and me. He acts all high and mighty. Anyway, I then told him I'm parting ways with everything KMFDM in my house because he's a childish brat.
He replied with:
SORRY
MUTHA
FUCKA
ADIOS
Good riddance. It's like discovering your girlfriend sucks others guys cocks on the side and she has no problem with it.
Darren is absolutley, 100% correct and I agree with him. If SK e-mailed me like he did to Darren, I'd do the same thing. Which is pretty much why I'm selling off my KMFDM KRAP!
So if you guys don't "agree" or "care" about the situation, then get off your lazy cheap asses and buy me and Darren's shit off of eBay. We certainly don't want this shit, so give us some fucking money you brown-nosers.
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsassZpraisetheschwein
&
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZtardcorewtf
Meanwhile, on the sick city board, folks begin mocking with thread titles like Torrent Link to Entire KMFDM DIscography containing text like "Just fucking with you, Sascha. You just lost me as a fan when you started harassing someone over a live bootleg from four years ago from a side-project you don't even care about anymore. Even Metallica supports live bootlegs, which means you're below Metallica in my book."
And pooballs changes her sig to read "KMFtm, where your memories of industrial music are raped by lawyers!" They also complain that the KMFDM email newsletter contains nothing but product advertisements.
And so then Sascha himself shows up and posts at the Ultra Heavy Beat forum, as Kapt'n K, in a thread titled SORRY MUTHA FUCKA ADIOS. You should probably go read it there, as it's full of formatting and quotes. Sascha also takes the opportunity, later in the thread, to announce his engagement to KMFDM member Lucia... which makes the kerfuffle thread a rather strange mix of flaming and congratulating.
Sorry for the lengthy post. Since you all are somewhat in the loop on this, here's what was said.
Quote:
On Mar 17, 2005, at 7:07 AM (he's up early) , Chris Windham wrote:
Threatening fans with lawyers isn't the best way to go about things.
Because of this, I will be parting with everything KMFDM in my house.
SORRY
MUTHA
FUCKA
ADIOS
Quote:
On Mar 17, 2005, at 1:30 PM (oh the fervor...), Chris Windham wrote:
It's glorious to see just how immature a man of your age, can really be.
Grow up and don't threaten fans with lawsuits over shitty MDFMK
bootlegs no one is making a dime off of. It's not too hard. If you're
so worried about it, why don't you start selling bootlegs out of the
amazing KMFDM STORE!
since you posted the last email already on UHB, go ahead and post this one now as well, chris.
you are quite mistaken. this is not at all about threatening fans or non-fans alike.
the guy darren got our attention a while back when he offered to sell home-burned PIG dvd's. he may claim that he was going to sell them for cost and only to a few people... but bottom line, he was going to sell them. we here at headquarters happen to be PIG's publishers. it is our job to license and collect royalties, and ultimately to also protect, if necessary, PIG's copyright.
accordingly, our legal dept. sent the guy a nasty mail to make him stop. which he did. sure, he whined and moaned on some message boards, but hell, you all do all the time whine and bitch about something. i have long ago given up getting involved in these boards anyways, with the exception of UHB which is a fine board with a good amount of level-headed, educated and literate, as well as good-mannered (unlike you) people.
anyways, back to the core of this:
recently our legal dept. had to send darren yet another mail when they found him posting about and directly linking to a download site with mdfmk material freely distributed.
old, shitty and not so relevant perhaps, but still something we and universal share the copyrights of. he has thusly become a multiple offender in the book of the legal dept.
if he (and you for that matter) think that as a "fan" he has carte blanche to do whatever he can conceive of, you both are mistaken.
if we wanted darren to be our online distributor for mdfmk and PIG, we would have hired him.
if you can't understand that as a company we have obligations, rights and responsibilities, that we protect our assets and that we reach out to people or other companies that infringe on said assets, if you don't get this, then please take my advice and lose my email address, as i asked you earlier.
i will not tolerate that you personally harrass ME one more time. i am in the midst of recording a new album and i can't be bothered to get personally involved in horseshit like this. don't you think i have better things to do than argue with KMFDM "fans" about their 19-year old mischief ?
if darren wasn't so blatantly obvious about his activities, nobody would've noticed, most likely....
so sell whatever you want... i couldn't care less.
i am selling "this KMFDM shit" because, "boohooo sascha, that dick, he was mean to my friend"
very mature that.
so fuck off
Quote:
On Mar 17, 2005, at 4:46 PM (as if he can't get enough), Chris Windham wrote:
This will be my last mail to you as I will "lose" your address, as per
your wishes.
thanks
Quote:
First of all, thank you for the explanation. It's nice knowing you
take out at least 5 minutes for some fans that have been throwing shit
around. Shit that's certainly been stirred and over-cooked all too
much.
i take all the time that i have to interact, communicate and listen to our fans, anfd they know that.
Quote:
Secondly, I know you're a busy musician trying to earn some coin.
i am not "trying to earn some coin". that is the last thing i'd expect to happen with KMFDM.
it's a work of love.
Quote:
But
I'd be more worried about FUBAR being passed around like an STD during
Woodstock, or some of the other, more recent releases from you, than
an MDFMK bootleg. I had nothing to do with that PIG dvd, but I knew
about it and didn't exactly agree with much of it. Although it was
probably wrong for him to pass along those videos, he needed the money
for DVD-Rs and for shipping costs, so just know that the money he
"received" didn't go into his massively huge bank account that he
acquired for fucking other bands in the ass from their bootlegs.
Smile
Quote:
Third, yes, a lot of my friends think you are a male genital,
including me, but it shouldn't matter because I'm just some fan whose
opinion doesn't mean shit.
trust me, i am.
Quote:
I'm also selling the KMFDM merchandise
because I'm focusing on my future. Unlike everyone else in the glitz
world, I have to give up some things to buy some transportation so
that I can go to school and work.
there's no glitz world here....
Quote:
Lastly, I wish you wouldn't lurk at the forums and pinpoint the true
fans of your work.
wish as you may, i never lurk. i frequently read UHB and post there, and that's that.
all true fans of our work know the basics: don't get caught red-handed, other than that, have fun.
Quote:
We probably set ourselves up for it, and yes you
have duties and copyrights and yada yada yada,
it's called our livelihoods. we are working very very hard to afford ourselves to be KMFDM.
there are 7 of us that need food, housing etc. we tour and record our asses off.
not many bands release records as frequently as we do, document tours and concerts, fun-bits and bloopers, and make available to their fans
absolutely affordable quality merch. you have to admit that there's merch for every budget. have you looked what other bands shirts and tickets
go for these days. don't yadayada me...
Quote:
but we are all fans who
look up to you. We buy (bought) your stuff, we supported you, we
listened and adored, and that's a lot more than others have done.
Sure, we aren't all educated in the business world because we are,
after all, a bunch of 19 year olds bitching about trivial shit, & no
I'm not the brightest kid in the world, but all that mattered to me
was the music, the scene, being a fan. That's what I liked to do best.
I wasn't even aware of KMFDM prior to discovering MDFMK. That makes it
impossible, legally, for me to listen to a live show of you guys back
when you first started to "rip the system", unless you or someone else
releases it? Please...
you can listen to, wank to, even eat as many live show bootlegs as you can handle, just don't peddle them in front of our legal dept's noses.
Quote:
No fan will just sit there until some businessman in a suit gets off
his ass and releases everything.
there's no suits here..... (looks again), nope.
Quote:
Even so, who wouldn't want to share
that stuff with other fans, even if it was a crappy recording. I'm
sure a lot of people who heard it, still appreciate it.
sharing is great, not selling or blatantly linking though.
Quote:
see ya.
good luck on fubar. and the fanbase.
thank you, FUBAR is coming along just dandy and the fanbase and KMFDM are one for all and all for one, as usual.
best
_________________
Kapt'n K
-Napalm yes, creampies no-
(U.Meinhof)
Chris is the first to respond:
Ya beat me to it [Crying or Very sad face]
I was all giddy and ready to post this all over the net.
MrZinc:
I was one step ahead of the Kapt'n, I told this douche bag to fuck off a while ago. I am glad we all on the same page here. I think we need to BLACKBALL this Darren guy.
So Darren, Sascha, and Chris have it out ... honestly, you've got to love a 40+ band leader getting into petty message board flamewars with 19 year old fans on a FANBOARD.
Kapt'n K:
hahaha...blackballing is always fun...
...but maybe not poor little darren (he's only 19)
Darren870:
Do you feel powerful making fun of my age? The sad thing is though I've been listening to your music since I was 10. Thats almost 10 years now, probably the longest here...Yet you still attack my age...
Whatever...
Sell dvd's, hardly...sorry Im not made of money to be able to cough up $5 for every person that wanted them. Wait though, I could of SWORE I sent an e-mail stating I would eat the cost and ship them out for free, yet...nope still nasty ass e-mails from your "legal dept."...
Maybe you should hire someone else to run your legal dept, the man sounds like he is 8, plus his threats are lame. Though you do have a habbit of hiring assholes, your legal rep, your webmasters etc. If you didn't realize these people represent your music...people judge you on what they say and there actions.
Think about it, you know this could of escalated to ... nothing, had your legal department simply sent a nicer e-mail. Maybe you should re-read what they write before its sent out. Or maybe you are watching and reading, hi-fiving the person writing the emails...who knows...
lsyd:
OMFG, the drama the drama the drama. i just wish all these flames would be where they truly belong, at the sick flaming city!!!
Kapt'n K:
Darren, i don't feel powerful at all. I consider myself the luckiest person in the world, actually having made it out of germany, having had a (once in a lifetime) chance given to me by Jim and Danny (the founders of WaxTrax!), by having met and being engaged to Lucia and on and on and on...
I am very humble and, if i may say so, down to earth.
I am not gleeful, I work harder than anyone I know and I feel sometimes like I don't deserve the honors.
Seriously, I bear no grudges, least to you...
Smile, motherfucker !
You may not be the youngest KMFDM (ex-) fan but I admire the notion...
At least Sascha apologizes about the rude legal representative:
I'll let you believe that he is 8, but he ain't. He's not threatening, he follows through, all the way if I want to. But in your case, mistakes were made, I'll take full responsibility, and apologize on everyone's behalf.
Can we be friends again ? I hope so....
And then he offers to buy Darren and Chris' ebay collections:
Darren, you KNOW you were in the wrong, just grow up a tiny bit right now, and all's cool. Both you and chris, let me know how much you want for your collections that you're ebaying, I may just take them off your hands...
Darren posts a civil response:
Meh, if I didn't need the cash id give them out for free. However, I do but will not take you up on that offer. Let ebayers have them, they get a thrill from bidding anways...
And Chris actually apologizes:
Well Mr. Konietzko, congratulations on you and Lucia.
Hope all is well.
I was probably brash & crude earlier, and I appologize for my immaturity and rudeness
Mostly, I'm just amused by the fact that Sascha is getting so personally involved in the minor sharing of bootlegged material among a few devoted fans. Dude, grow up.
Good god.
***
And, sort of unrelated: the latest on Raymond, posted today, from Sascha:
[regarding the Pig DVD] after the pigmartyr dilemma - no thanks. we want no part in releasing anything from that camp
i haven't heard from raymond in many months.
Goddammit. Raymond is the only one I give a crap about.