H.M.S. Harmony: The Greatest Ship I've Ever Known

[runeharmonic]

My final thoughts about HP and shipping, also posted at HF.

Comments

[nellie_darlin]

I'm very sorry that you feel so strongly about this and that you are so shaken and stirred that you have temporarily forgotten all your convincing arguments. You know, I would wait around to see if they return to you (along with your manners and respect for a writer who - if not entirely to your taste - is FAR from "Mary Sue" and has created a fantastic series that has made children all over the world read) but frankly, I don't have the time to listen to childish tantrums.

Personally, I'm very unhappy about the Remus/Tonks relationship. But I'm not going to resort to petty insults against JKR. The woman may not have the technical writing ability of Thackeray or Fitzgerald or Steinbeck or other modern classics, but the world she has created is the most believable and detailed fantasy world I've ever read, and the books are compelling. The very violence of the reactions from the shipping community shows the effect the books have had.

Can you not work through your disgust (which is of course justified if you held hopes of H/Hr: as a R/Hr and H/G shipper I know if H/Hr had happened I would have been very disapppointed) and return to the books? It's such a shame to abandon the series over a matter like this. The books are about so much more than who is shagging who. Have you no curiosity about what will happen? Even if you dislike "Ginny Sue", (and I think that before claiming a wonderful, strong, clever, funny, BUT STILL FLAWED girl like Ginny is a Mary Sue, you should actually read some Mary Sue fics - check out pottersues for some examples) there are many other fantastic characters whose fates you must be worried about.

I am going to read the essays you recommended, because I'm curious to see where your ideas come from. I used to ship H/Hr but realised after PoA that R/Hr seemed more likely and more satisfying. I am interested to see why you believed what you did until HBP, against what is to me incontrovertible canon evidence. Would you do me the courtesy of reading some pro- H/G essays? If you still don't agree, fair enough, but at least you've heard both sides of the story. You can find a pro-H/G (including a defence of "Ginny Sue") here.

I totally accept your right to ship H/Hr. If you wanted to ship Harry and the Giant Squid, I'd be fine with that. I might back away slowly, but I'd tolerate it. I accept your right to think that HBP was not up to the standards of the previous book. I even accept your right to think that JKR is not a great writer. What I really can't stand is the way you have turned on JKR and started slagging her off simply because the story took a turn you are unhappy with, especially by suggesting that the direction of the stories was guided by monetary concerns. That is childish. Present a criticism of the work, but do not insult the author.

[phoenixwriter]

What I really can't stand is the way you have turned on JKR and started slagging her off simply because the story took a turn you are unhappy with, especially by suggesting that the direction of the stories was guided by monetary concerns. That is childish. Present a criticism of the work, but do not insult the author.

I daresay she was first in doing so. Take a look at jkrowling.com extra stuff. Then you might see where such reaction comes from.

[nellie_darlin]

Ok, you're going to have to do better than that. I've never believed that JKR writes for money (if she was, she could have retired years ago), but I was prepared to be surprised. This is because I have something called AN OPEN MIND. However, I read all through that section, and the only mention of money is this:

(though these days I can afford to keep ordering coffees even if I don't drink them, so that's less of a problem)

Despite having an English Literature A-Level and 93% in my AS-level last year, I could be reading this wrong. This quote could in fact be saying "Fuck you hors I just want MONEY!" as you suggest. However, to me all this says is that the woman has managed (through her own hard work) to allow herself to live in comfort.

Is this the quote you meant? If not, please could you give me the quote? I'd love to know where you get this idea from; my mind is still OPEN. Give me proof, I'll believe it. Without reasonable proof, I'll stick to what I believe.

[phoenixwriter]

*lol* Not money. I'm pretty sure she didn't need that anymore since 2000 as the movies started. I meant the way she talks about H/Hr shipper but then again one can't expect anything else from her.

Look under "Emerson and Melissa" a nice comment how angry H/Hr shipper would trick Emerson.

This reactions by H/Hr shipper is only this way because JKR dished it out. Personally, I don't care since I thought ever since I read her interviews she's bit CLOSED MINDED on things. Nobody says in an interview how stupid US-citizen are. Unfortunally, I have that one only in my language.

[nellie_darlin]

Oh, fair dos. You mean that since JKR "insulted" you, it's ok to insult her back. How mature.

I don't agree with the way she portrayed H/Hrs. I'm sadder that Emerson and Melissa felt the need to get personal. Still, I have to say she has a point. Harry/Hermione might still happen, but all the canon evidence points to Ron and Hermione. You may think it's wrong, that it shouldn't happen, but it's only by really selective reading that R/Hr can be denied or H/Hr preferred. Which is what JKR was saying.

As for JKR being closed minded... Um, it's her books. It's her world. She's not closed-minded, because that would suggest someone was trying to persuade her of something and she wasn't prepared to change her mind. She may have chosen the wrong words and been somewhat unjudicious in allowing Emerson and Melissa to go off like that, but she is not in any way closed-minded.

[phoenixwriter]

Nah, not her books, her views in general aren't open minded.

You mean that since JKR "insulted" you, it's ok to insult her back. How mature.

I didn't say its mature, its an explanation nothing more and nothing less.

[nellie_darlin]

I still don't agree with you, I'm afraid. I think people tend to use "closed-minded" to mean "doesn't agree with me". But I'm going to stop this discussion because it's not going anywhere and it's getting perilously close to a ship-war and a fandom wank in one, which I want to avoid.

Plus, according to The Leaky Cauldron YESTERDAY, Emerson has issued a public apology for the use of the word delusional in the interview. Does that help some?

[runeharmonic]

Thanks, Diana, for coming to defend me when I'm not available.

Apparently, nellie_darlin, you do not wish to see any flaws in JKR's work. Feel free.

But she has offended a rather large "minority" of her fans in the interview and now on her website, while expecting everyone to somehow love the steaming pile of contradictions and holes and bad judgement that was HBP.

Call me delusional. Fine. I still refuse to worship at the altar of Rowling, and I won't swallow Emerson's lame apology that still manages to insult us.

I didn't buy HBP. I don't appreciate JKR's callous attitude. I don't condone Emerson's public display of maliciousness. That's all.

Last I checked, I'm allowed to have different opinions, particularly if I wished to express them on my LJ.

[lizey]

I see flaws in HP. But I actually thought HBP was better than OotP. Contradictions, holes and bad judgement do occur in the HP books - I would personally be happier if JKR was more of a pedant about such things, but I can deal. If I decided that I couldn't deal because now it affected my ship (in fact, my ship was sunk, after a fashion, in HBP), I would feel like a hypocrite.
I don't think anyone is asking you to worship at the altar of Rowling. What do you mean by that? People asking you to accept that an author has the final word on whether a character is IC or OOC? (I'm shaky on that idea, myself.)

[lizey]

Ahem. Might help to say that I had my perceptions of Hermione shifted by HBP, from someone-who-would-be-happier-with-Harry to someone-who-would-be-happier-with-Ron. I still do not ship either way, nor have I, but that was how my idea of Hermione went before HBP. I don't, however, feel that books 1 - 5 Hermione was definitely my version and assraped to produce HBP Hermione. Not saying that you do.