Look at economic output and educational achievement on a state-by-state basis: it's painfully evident that we Blues are immensely more productive and better educated than you Reds. We have lots more money. We live longer. We eat better. We work less. We fuck more. We do cocaine and smoke fine Canadian buds, not the homebrew crank and cheap Mexican headache reefer you guys are stuck with. We drink French wine and Stoli martinis, not Budweiser. Our children rarely bother us: we've got them on Ritalin and Prozac. Our teeth are straighter and whiter, our necks longer, and our fingernails cleaner.
And you wonder why the fuck people here in the Midwest resent arrogant bastards from the coast? Holy shit, I know it was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek or facetious, but that was some mighty condescending writing, and plenty of people (myself included) will sense a true undercurrent of condescension underneath the satire and sarcasm.
I find the 'let us secede' shit laughable; so much for unity and the political process! Why not ask people in minority-dominated slums why the policies of Democratic city governments have not lifted them out of poverty and crime; ask why it is that New York was a dangerous shithole during the Dinkins years, but saw a rebirth during the Guliani administration? Guliani was mean (he closed sex shops near Times Square!) and anal (he made the cops enforce jaywalking laws!), but look at the result. The city became measureably safer, and a ton of small businessowners (and employees, and artists, and whomever else) earned more and had a better quality of life because of it. THAT is why people out here like Bush- he doesn't talk down, he talks in a language they understand, his policies match the relatively simple worldview people want to believe in, and he doesn't propose to take their money and redistribute it. Hell, Bush paid more taxes than the Kerrys!
Why is it that Clinton had a mandate for change in his Kennedy-plaigarism '100 Days' with about 44% of the popular vote, while Bush, with over 51%, is being asked to compromise and share power? Not that I disagree with that, totally, I wouldn't mind if he mended some fences, but I still see a disparity there. Did anyone threaten to secede or leave if Algore or Kerry won? If so, not with the same degree of victimization as people who dreaded a Bush victory have, at least not to my eyes and ears.
You know what? I've lived in New York; I've lived in Connecticut, and I've traveled down the Pacific Coast. I've driven across the upper Midwest, and lived in Oklahoma for nearly two years, and I LIKE the Midwest better. Bullshit there's less opportunity; the jobs are different, but you can succeed here just as easily, and there's less competition and less cost, too. Life is different here. My boss gets up at 4 to feed and care for his horses, comes in by 7 to do his job as chief pilot, goes back to care for the horses in the evening, and some nights (and a lot of Sundays!) comes back in after that to do checkrides for people who have flown in for a week to get a rating, and are in a crunch. If you want to import a lifestyle appropriate to the coast, well, you're gonna find it doesn't fit as well, and it may seem shitty. But a lot of people here would prefer some hardship to being a liberal state. They like open spaces, they like owning guns, they like living near the same families year after year and knowing their neighbors like family. I find the prospect of Left and East Coast secession laughable; who there would fight for it? And with what? ((continued))
The Rest of It AllcrashskaNovember 8 2004, 23:40:00 UTC
Ruka, I know our views are radically different, and I don't mean any personal affront, but I'm tired of apocalyptic speechifying and doomsday foretelling and the creation of fantasy situations where people get to have all their wants fulfilled and never have to pay anything for it, where someone else picks up the check. It's not real, it's a delusion. I know, I'm paying at the front end. In the hopes of a long-term satisfying career, I'm earning LESS than a dedicated McDonalds employee, all the while facing the prospect of administrative action from the FAA and now Federal prosecution from the TSA for interacting with foreign nationals who may want to blow up our country with a Cessna 152. I'm seeing the clumsy attempts of the TSA to recruit instructors as jackbooted thugs, and I hate it thorougly, but I'm not quitting and running away crying; we still have the freest aviation system in the world. No, I'm joining with groups in the industry that are fighting, through administrative and legal means, these regulations that I firmly believe overstep the bounds of security and do little or nothing to protect us. If you don't like the system, taking your ball and going home does nothing to change it. Participation and activism are the choices of real citizens, just like the participation of a true majority of the population who said "No, we don't want John Kerry as our leader."
So, again, if you find any of this to be a personal attack, I'm sorry that you do.
Re: The Rest of It AllrukatigerNovember 9 2004, 14:45:04 UTC
I read a brief news clip about that the other day. WTF is up with that? Are you supposed to ask to see their passport and visa everytime they come for a lesson? Hello, isn't that what the visa application process is for?
Re: The Rest of It AllcrashskaNovember 9 2004, 22:06:40 UTC
No, foreigners have to go through the "Pilot Candidate" program and be vetted by the State Dept. This is AFTER they get approved for a visa, and costs them even more money. So, if they're here getting trained, then they're OK- but it has to be to go to a specific school, not to just come here and get random training. Our chief said that if we were going to do sidework flying with a foreign national, we needed to get his help on the TSA regs so we don't get screwed. For US nationals, we need to check the birth cert., passport, or naturalization papers the first time we fly with them, make a logbook entry, and keep a copy of the papers for FIVE YEARS.
I agree with the spirit of the piece, if not the letter. Though there are a few points where I agree word for word with the author, schools, "morals", and "values". I grew up in the South, Tennesse and Louisiana to be exact, and know from personal experience that the schools suck (We want better schools! But we aren't going to pay the taxes to get them!), politicians are worse than usual (Granted they are bad everywhere, but it seems they are accepted more so in republican areas. Huey P. Long anyone?), and the bible thumpers can't leave people well enough alone.
Why not ask people in minority-dominated slums why the policies of Democratic city governments have not lifted them out of poverty and crime...
Because it's a meet in the middle proposition. They have to be willing to put in effort to better their situation with the help of the government. You have to have social programs like welfare, free clinics, and job counseling or things would be worse than they are now. Can you imagine the cities if we didn't have those programs? Instead of instituting reform in welfare (democrats and republicans are both guilty of not doing it), Guliani took the police state mentality and started tossing homeless people in jail. It visibly cleaned up the streets but did nothing for the real problem.
...relatively simple worldview people want to believe in...
A major fallacy. The world is not a simple place, and to pander to that belief is dangerous. The simple worldview you speak of is America-centric, we can do no wrong, and "why does everyone hate us". It's why most of the world dislikes the US as a whole and American's to a lesser extent.
My belief is that it greatly extends from the fact that the US is fairly isolated geographically and was founded by religious separatists. We don't have six or seven other countries within a few hours drive so we don't have to think about relations with them, nor the idea of visiting for whatever reason. What really shocks me is that most Americans would be hard pressed to name the capitol of Canada (East coast you would hear Toronto, West coast, Vancouver) or know they are our largest trading partner.
Why is it that Clinton had a mandate...
He didn't, neither does Bush. Hell the only president I would say had a mandate in the last hundred years is Roosevelt.
I believe he could have a mandate on terror, if he would actually fight this "war" that he keeps talking about but only seems to involve Iraq. Why isn't he fighting this "war" in Ireland, Nigeria, Indonesia, the Philippines? It doesn't always have to be fought with guns and bombs. Clinton set up a damn good foundation in Ireland which is starting to crumble after four years of neglect.
Bullshit there's less opportunity...
There are less opportunities in the middle of the country unless you are in farming, manufacturing, and services. The margins in farming are dropping because the farmers are more beholden to large companies and the government, manufacturing is leaving the country because US workers want more money and benefits for less work, and services are leaving for pretty much the same reasons. The competition is greater because you have the same or more people competing for less jobs.
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I don't think our views are actually that radically different. I do not consider myself a democrat in the sense of the current party. I am more socially liberal and fiscally conservative with the caveat of having a fair safty net of social programs. I happen to like guns, I own four even two handguns; I don't, however, think a person needs an AK-47 or .50 rifle with API rounds. I like my mountains, lakes, and forests... you can keep the plains, flat land sucks :p. I don't like living near the same people all of my life though, too much wonder-lust I guess. I would rather experience more parts of the world.
But as for inner cities, people have to make a choice to live a better life. It can be done, it has been done, but government can't do it for them. You're wrong about NYC- taking care of small crimes, and enforcing basic law and order resulted in the city becoming much safer. Stats show it. Guliani also had police begin cracking down on 'quality of life' type crimes, and cleaning up neighborhoods so they don't LOOK like slums and attract criminal elements. I complain about the massive police force here, but there is relatively little crime for a city of 100,000. Same for OKC- the metro area has nearly one million people, but murder and violent crime are not as prevalent as other places.
Who said we aren't fighting the war on terror in other places? Just because the major news networks (or any news network) doesn't cover it, doesn't mean it's not happening. Check out a book called 'Masters of Chaos', about the Army Special Forces, and see how the war can be effectively fought (and how the war in Iraq has been and could be fought better) by small groups of capable, talented, and highly effective soldier/diplomats.
And I still say 'bullshit' to no opportunity out here. I see a lot of people here who have built a better life for themselves. There are lots of new cars, lots of new houses. We have automotive factories, oil refineries, plenty of construction and fabrication jobs, as well as a growing tech workforce. Hell, we even have a spaceport out at Burns Flats. And I ask, if all these jobs are leaving the US, how did we add several hundred thousand new ones last month?
I don't want to keep the goddam flat land, I fucking hate it. I'm here because this is where I can build time and then leave for someplace where the hills are taller than the landfill, but I still like the people and the attitude towards life that some of them have. Much better than Chicago or Connecticut or any other built-up, power-encrusted, asshole coastal enclave.
Now, as for the Dems, you get Zell Miller to run, I'll vote for him. You get Lieberman to run with someone I can stand, and I might vote for them. I'm for fiscal conservatism and some social conservatism, but I'm not a racist rabid alternate-lifestyle hating bigot- I just don't want the stuff thrown in my face. Sometimes I can be a reactionary. Social safety nets are not bad, but the problem begins when people start abusing them and believing that they don't have a responsibility to take care of themselves, thinking that they can be like children all their lives and have someone else clean up the messes they make. This isn't evil meanhearted NeoConservative stinginess, it's a lesson I learned from my parents, both in terms of owning up for your mistakes and preparing to take care of yourself when you can't earn a living anymore. My father started saving early, just like my grandfather, and both of them have set themselves up comfortably for retirement, and as soon as I have a decent paying job I'm going to be doing the same.
And you wonder why the fuck people here in the Midwest resent arrogant bastards from the coast? Holy shit, I know it was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek or facetious, but that was some mighty condescending writing, and plenty of people (myself included) will sense a true undercurrent of condescension underneath the satire and sarcasm.
I find the 'let us secede' shit laughable; so much for unity and the political process! Why not ask people in minority-dominated slums why the policies of Democratic city governments have not lifted them out of poverty and crime; ask why it is that New York was a dangerous shithole during the Dinkins years, but saw a rebirth during the Guliani administration? Guliani was mean (he closed sex shops near Times Square!) and anal (he made the cops enforce jaywalking laws!), but look at the result. The city became measureably safer, and a ton of small businessowners (and employees, and artists, and whomever else) earned more and had a better quality of life because of it.
THAT is why people out here like Bush- he doesn't talk down, he talks in a language they understand, his policies match the relatively simple worldview people want to believe in, and he doesn't propose to take their money and redistribute it. Hell, Bush paid more taxes than the Kerrys!
Why is it that Clinton had a mandate for change in his Kennedy-plaigarism '100 Days' with about 44% of the popular vote, while Bush, with over 51%, is being asked to compromise and share power? Not that I disagree with that, totally, I wouldn't mind if he mended some fences, but I still see a disparity there. Did anyone threaten to secede or leave if Algore or Kerry won? If so, not with the same degree of victimization as people who dreaded a Bush victory have, at least not to my eyes and ears.
You know what? I've lived in New York; I've lived in Connecticut, and I've traveled down the Pacific Coast. I've driven across the upper Midwest, and lived in Oklahoma for nearly two years, and I LIKE the Midwest better. Bullshit there's less opportunity; the jobs are different, but you can succeed here just as easily, and there's less competition and less cost, too. Life is different here. My boss gets up at 4 to feed and care for his horses, comes in by 7 to do his job as chief pilot, goes back to care for the horses in the evening, and some nights (and a lot of Sundays!) comes back in after that to do checkrides for people who have flown in for a week to get a rating, and are in a crunch. If you want to import a lifestyle appropriate to the coast, well, you're gonna find it doesn't fit as well, and it may seem shitty. But a lot of people here would prefer some hardship to being a liberal state. They like open spaces, they like owning guns, they like living near the same families year after year and knowing their neighbors like family. I find the prospect of Left and East Coast secession laughable; who there would fight for it? And with what?
((continued))
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So, again, if you find any of this to be a personal attack, I'm sorry that you do.
Reply
Reply
Reply
Why not ask people in minority-dominated slums why the policies of Democratic city governments have not lifted them out of poverty and crime...
Because it's a meet in the middle proposition. They have to be willing to put in effort to better their situation with the help of the government. You have to have social programs like welfare, free clinics, and job counseling or things would be worse than they are now. Can you imagine the cities if we didn't have those programs? Instead of instituting reform in welfare (democrats and republicans are both guilty of not doing it), Guliani took the police state mentality and started tossing homeless people in jail. It visibly cleaned up the streets but did nothing for the real problem.
...relatively simple worldview people want to believe in...
A major fallacy. The world is not a simple place, and to pander to that belief is dangerous. The simple worldview you speak of is America-centric, we can do no wrong, and "why does everyone hate us". It's why most of the world dislikes the US as a whole and American's to a lesser extent.
My belief is that it greatly extends from the fact that the US is fairly isolated geographically and was founded by religious separatists. We don't have six or seven other countries within a few hours drive so we don't have to think about relations with them, nor the idea of visiting for whatever reason. What really shocks me is that most Americans would be hard pressed to name the capitol of Canada (East coast you would hear Toronto, West coast, Vancouver) or know they are our largest trading partner.
Why is it that Clinton had a mandate...
He didn't, neither does Bush. Hell the only president I would say had a mandate in the last hundred years is Roosevelt.
I believe he could have a mandate on terror, if he would actually fight this "war" that he keeps talking about but only seems to involve Iraq. Why isn't he fighting this "war" in Ireland, Nigeria, Indonesia, the Philippines? It doesn't always have to be fought with guns and bombs. Clinton set up a damn good foundation in Ireland which is starting to crumble after four years of neglect.
Bullshit there's less opportunity...
There are less opportunities in the middle of the country unless you are in farming, manufacturing, and services. The margins in farming are dropping because the farmers are more beholden to large companies and the government, manufacturing is leaving the country because US workers want more money and benefits for less work, and services are leaving for pretty much the same reasons. The competition is greater because you have the same or more people competing for less jobs.
-------------------------------------
I don't think our views are actually that radically different. I do not consider myself a democrat in the sense of the current party. I am more socially liberal and fiscally conservative with the caveat of having a fair safty net of social programs. I happen to like guns, I own four even two handguns; I don't, however, think a person needs an AK-47 or .50 rifle with API rounds. I like my mountains, lakes, and forests... you can keep the plains, flat land sucks :p. I don't like living near the same people all of my life though, too much wonder-lust I guess. I would rather experience more parts of the world.
Reply
Who said we aren't fighting the war on terror in other places? Just because the major news networks (or any news network) doesn't cover it, doesn't mean it's not happening. Check out a book called 'Masters of Chaos', about the Army Special Forces, and see how the war can be effectively fought (and how the war in Iraq has been and could be fought better) by small groups of capable, talented, and highly effective soldier/diplomats.
And I still say 'bullshit' to no opportunity out here. I see a lot of people here who have built a better life for themselves. There are lots of new cars, lots of new houses. We have automotive factories, oil refineries, plenty of construction and fabrication jobs, as well as a growing tech workforce. Hell, we even have a spaceport out at Burns Flats. And I ask, if all these jobs are leaving the US, how did we add several hundred thousand new ones last month?
I don't want to keep the goddam flat land, I fucking hate it. I'm here because this is where I can build time and then leave for someplace where the hills are taller than the landfill, but I still like the people and the attitude towards life that some of them have. Much better than Chicago or Connecticut or any other built-up, power-encrusted, asshole coastal enclave.
Now, as for the Dems, you get Zell Miller to run, I'll vote for him. You get Lieberman to run with someone I can stand, and I might vote for them. I'm for fiscal conservatism and some social conservatism, but I'm not a racist rabid alternate-lifestyle hating bigot- I just don't want the stuff thrown in my face. Sometimes I can be a reactionary. Social safety nets are not bad, but the problem begins when people start abusing them and believing that they don't have a responsibility to take care of themselves, thinking that they can be like children all their lives and have someone else clean up the messes they make. This isn't evil meanhearted NeoConservative stinginess, it's a lesson I learned from my parents, both in terms of owning up for your mistakes and preparing to take care of yourself when you can't earn a living anymore. My father started saving early, just like my grandfather, and both of them have set themselves up comfortably for retirement, and as soon as I have a decent paying job I'm going to be doing the same.
Reply
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