Born to Fail - part 2

[roxybisquaint]

As you know, I wasn't happy with the season finale of TSCC (see Born to Fail part 1), but I think I could still talk about it and analyze it and speculate about it for months (which I absolutely will if the show gets renewed and maybe even if it doesn't). "Born to Run" circled back to the start of the series and hit on so many episodes in its wrap

Comments

[johnnypate]

The bank time bubble scenario from S1 was somewhat different in (at least) these ways:

• The time machine in the bank was cobbled together from 1960s era tech by humans;
• Sarah fired the Terminator-destroying nuke gun as the time bubble blew, whatever that was it caused Cromartie to come apart and whatever amount of collateral damage firing such a weapon under such cirmstances might cause.
• It would be reasonable to assume, given the intended circumstances of its use, that the bank time machine was rigged for self-destruct after the jump.

We've seen that time bubbles cause electrical effects and fires ("Self Made Man") but thus far the actual destructive effects have been reasonably localized, except for the bank. This gives credence to the hypothesis that Sarah firing the weapon had devastating effects in that particular case, and/or the machine was rigged for complete destruction to prevent the time machine falling into the wrong hands

[johnnypate]

BTW, I wasn't particularly a fan of the Ellison S1 character but I do think you're underestimating the role of character in S2. (Some exchanges on this issue occurred in the comments thread of your last "Born to Fail" entry.)

[roxybisquaint]

Hmm, I'll have to backtrack to the other post then. I don't remember an Ellison discussion. I thought I'd read everything, but I must have missed that.

I have no doubt Ellison's character could be turned around. If he stops thinking it's all about him for two seconds and actually listens to Sarah for once, he might have a shot at redeeming himself. But the other problem is that it would be really stupid of Sarah to even give him that chance now. He's burned her too many times.

[johnnypate]

My major point re Ellison is that the whole God vs John Henry was cool and consistent with Ellison S1. Plus, importantly. Ellison is the only one who has thought thru the issue of, "Well, we tried blowing the shit of Cyberdyne/Skynet, that didn't work so let's just go ahead and do it again." The definition of insanity, repeating the same failed strategy over and over. OTOH, we have Ellison staking his faith on God and redemption and attempting to make Skynet a moral being. Way, way, smarter. And, as remarked passim, a real issue for AI research.

I don't think Ellison knowingly led the cops to Sarah in the theatre - John had already warned him about Cameron going Terminator on his and everyone else's ass and one would assume Ellison would be loathe to risk that after "What He Beheld."

One would hope that Sarah doesn't trust anyone but is smart enough to work with anyone that can be used to further her agenda - which could easily be Ellison. They don't have to like each other.

[roxybisquaint]

I agree that season 2 Ellison was consistent with season 1 Ellison, but I think you're giving him way too much credit. He didn't teach morality and ethics to John Henry because he thought Sarah's methods were flawed or because he thought it was a better way to stop Skynet. He never had any clue he'd be teaching an AI anything when he stole Cromartie's endo

[bobmacpharson]

John Henry led the cops to Sarah? Huh? How does that make sense? I assumed it was just that there was another cop who was actually COMPETENT that got Sarah arrested.

[roxybisquaint]

No one except Ellison, John Henry and Weaver knew that "Sarah Connor" was alive, though. So even if that other agent had followed Ellison to the theater because he was suspicious of him, there wouldn't have been a bunch of cops outside expecting Sarah Connor to walk out the door. And they clearly were - they knew immediately who she was.

So that means Ellison, JH or Weaver tipped off the police. Here's why I think it was John Henry:

- John Henry was told by Weaver that Savannah's survival depended on his.
- He feared Sarah Connor may want to destroy him because he has Mile's Dyson's code in him.
- Therefore, John Henry believed Sarah was a threat to Savannah.
- To ensure Savannah's survival, John Henry ensured his own survival by getting Sarah Connor arrested.

[johnnypate]

Turning it around, why would Ellison trust crazy Sarah? By her own admission, her efforts to thwart JD had/will most likely fail - as evidenced by sundry Terminators. Ellison has been FBI for many years - he's surely a fan of big government / big corporation solutions to things. Sarah's not getting the job done anyway, QED. Once he's invested himself to a course of action he's got to decide whether throwing it away gains or loses. All evidence suggests Sarah's approach is a bust, working from the inside is at the very minimum a different strategy that would appear to offer some kind of alternative to nuclear Armageddon and the human race being hunted to extinction. Just as well he never met Jesse.

[roxybisquaint]

Ellison doesn't trust either. He's not the focus of the story, though, so if he walks away because he doesn't trust her, then he's done. And as much as I would like that, I don't see it happening. Ellison, much to my dismay, was kept alive for a reason - throw the two opposite characters together and see what happens.

Faith VS "I'm not sure faith is even part of my programming"

"I just want to know my role in all this" VS "Through it all I've always known who I am and why I'm here: protect my son, prepare him for the future."

Faith and purpose. It'll be interesting, but since I hate Ellison, it'll be less interesting :P

[roxybisquaint]

It would be reasonable to assume, given the intended circumstances of its use, that the bank time machine was rigged for self-destruct after the jump.

It's possible I guess, but the time machine in the bank vault was set up 36 years before it was used. It doesn't seem like a good idea to have explosives in place for that long. Your idea that Sarah firing the primitive plasma rifle as they were jumping could have caused the damage is probably more likely. I'm still not satisfied, though.

the Cameron carcass should have been taken thru? John questioned the Weaverbot about it but the answer wasn't exactly informative.

I'm fine with Cameron's body not going through. It was partially exposed metal and also, with no power, she was basically dead - no living tissue. In T1, Kyle said "nothing dead with go."

Don't worry about the pretty Terminator - they can always make another one for you. Maybe when the Japanese have saturated the market for Summer Glau sexbots they'll start on copies of him.

LOL.

[johnnypate]

It would be fine to leave sixties era plastic explosives and detonators around for that length of time. But, in any case, I don't see that a time machine would require explosives to blow up! There must be some very heavy stuff going on that has the potential for blowing stuff up real good.

no living tissue - by that argument, Cromartie/John Henry should have been rotting away. Not only did Sarah smash the chip to bits with butt of an MP5, they buried the body in the sand, it was dug up, put in the trunk of a car and then taken to Ziera Corp. Unless the Weaverbot not only re-tooled the chassis but re-did the whole bath of blood, cosmetic surgery shenanigans... seems to be that these T888 Terminator have a flesh covering that is remarkable in its re-growth properties

[johnnypate]

BTW, spoke to a friend of mine and he thought the "three dots" thing was a riff on "The Illuminatus Trilogy" particularly because of what Derek said (about his belt having 3 dots etc.) to John. But we're both fans so maybe we see "The Illuminatus Trilogy" everywhere...

[bobmacpharson]

Re: Cameron carcass:

doesn't matter if Cameron's flesh is still alive, there was a gap in it. if that amount of metal was accetable as "part of" a living organism, they'd be sending back soldiers with ear piercings shaped like guns. Best case scenario, Cameron's flesh goes through and leaves the metal behind, and I'm willing to buy that that doesn't happen because it's not a solid hunk o' flesh.

[roxybisquaint]

Yeah maybe that's all it is then - that all the metal has to be covered. It makes sense and is certainly the simplest answer.

Of course that leaves us with the problem of the flaming head flying through time in the pilot (even if the skin hadn't burned off before it entered the time bubble, there would have been exposed metal at the base of the neck), but I guess we'll just have to overlook that ;)

[bobmacpharson]

My personal rationalization for that is that the gun was going off at the same as the time travel device and that the explosion happened at the moment they leapt through time, leading to random unexpected consequences. (Possibly corollary: the head was on the outskirts of the bubble, so that while there was metal exposed, the metal was actually outside the bubble, so the time machine only "saw" the flesh parts.)

Honestly, it's probably more of a goof than anything else though

[johnnypate]

OK, here's howto make it work: the issue is the generation of a "bio-electric field" (i.e. a piece of Treknobabble in the first place). Let's assume a head with an active chip can use flesh to generate said "bio-electric field" whether or not the flesh covering is damaged. In this case, the head, with flesh burning off, made it thru because it could generate the field long enough for the timejump. Cameron's deactivated body, OTOH, (despite the self-maintenance and repair mechanisms that appear to allow some semblance of autonomous action) can, or did not, generate said "bio-electric field" and hence did not make a time jump