daybreak777 is allowed to laugh at this next statement--I might have a slight tendency to be blind to Leoben's worst faults. Just maybe. *g
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First: KERMIT! FAITH! SPIKE! Hah, that was so weird, I loved it.
Much discussion has gone into RDM's 'tomcatting' comment about Starbuck and Anders' line, "you think you were the first?" I choose to believe Sam was just baiting Lee with that, I mean Kara is not Ellen Tigh. (Shoot, on NC, even Ellen Tigh wasn't quite Ellen Tigh.)
Yeah, I personally like the whole 'baiting' Lee theory; apparently Trucco and Sackhoff do, too. And it worked; Lee's face right after Sam said it was just all kinds of woobified.
I also don't think that Sam and Kara promised fidelity. She doesn't seem concerned with that little vow and frankly, neither does he.
Hm. I can see that in Kara but I'm not sure I see it in Sam. And actually I wouldn't have said that before the whole Occupation arc; I'm guessing she really tried (before she got taken by Leoben) to be a good wife, though it wouldn't have been easy for her. Not because she's incapable of fidelity but because her first instinct is always to run away from whatever is making her face real intimacy. After New Caprica, though, she redefined everything and Sam let her. He took what he could get. As far as strategies go (for getting her back), it wasn't great but there weren't many options, either.
Any scene with Kara and Leoben romantically would have some issues with consent. The guy imprisoned her. She's not just going to fall willingly into bed with him. Doesn't means she doesn't have attraction to him (see: writhing and gasping) but doesn't mean she really wants to do it, either.
*sniff* I know. Doesn't mean I have to like it. *sulks*
I think I'm going to have to revise who I say is my favorite character. Because clearly it's not Kara if Leoben's around. He's like a trump card over my Kara-compassion. During 'Collaborators' for example, Kara's being horrible to Felix and I feel bad for both of them, but especially Kara--even though Felix should get more of my sympathy. But put Leoben onscreen and I don't care what happens to Kara nearly as much as I want to see Leoben playing mind games. So the paint!scene just wasn't what I wanted as a Leoben-fan, because that wasn't really him. And it wasn't what I wanted as a Kara fan because what I like about her is how she never gives up, but she did that time. She might run away but if she sticks around, she keeps trying and trying... and she just let that all fall away that time.
Speaking of trump cards--emotion wins out over cool logic, because now I'm getting to the point where logically the scene makes a certain degree of sense. But emotionally I just don't want to accept it. I think it's why I'm a better Kara-fan than Lee-fan because Lee often (not always, though) makes sense to me, but logic isn't what makes me prefer Kara over Lee.
*headdesk* I'm going on too long to fit this in one comment box.
First: KERMIT! FAITH! SPIKE! Hah, that was so weird, I loved it. Hee! I was a bit odd but so cute! Sometimes one needs a bit of humor. ;-) Glad you liked it.
After New Caprica, though, she redefined everything and Sam let her. He took what he could get. I agree. I think that while Dee and Sam loves their spouses after a while they both took what they could get. It's the end of the world, you compromise. I also said this (that fidelity didn't mean much) about Sam because at one point he encouraged Kara to follow her heart and go to Lee. He just wanted her to be happy. It's one thing Sam and I have in common.
(Btw way, Sam has changed too. I saw your comment about his morning after horniness cleverness. Morning afters surely changed for them. I like season 3 Sam better. He was so honest. I really respected that.)
*sniff* I know. Doesn't mean I have to like it. *sulks* I know, I know. I was a bit in denial too. Some people saw the chemistry and her reluctant attraction in F&B but not me. I saw it in Exodus Pt.2, but paint!sex was the clincher. I don't know if I like it but I've accepted it. Hey, maybe if Kara's aware of this she can be even stronger when she faces him.
I think I'm going to have to revise who I say is my favorite character. Oh noes! You don't want to revise! You really don't, do you? You care about her, you're just fascinated by him. He's hypnotic like that. But you're not fascninated enough to want him to hurt her mind? You don't want him to win. Besides he's not going to. Remember paint!sex was a dream. Not real. She hasn't given up. She just had to realize some truths about herself to fight another day.
I'm getting to the point where logically the scene makes a certain degree of sense. But emotionally I just don't want to accept it. Ah, emotions. I think I've figured out the scene logically. But emotionally? Emotionally my girl is hurting and messed up and while she and Leoben have that chemistry, I just worry for her the whole time I watch it. Part of me likes to see them together and the other part of me flinches the entire time. That's always been my emotional reading of the scene. I think that was intended and damn them, it worked.
Logic vs. emotions with this show? Logic goes out the window. I've learned that this week. Character love can trump all. It's probably why we all still watch the show. And while we are still waiting on it!
Some people saw the chemistry and her reluctant attraction in F&B but not me. I saw it in Exodus Pt.2, but paint!sex was the clincher. I don't know if I like it but I've accepted it. Hey, maybe if Kara's aware of this she can be even stronger when she faces him.
I think she'd have to face up to it in some way--'cause that was one heckuva dream and I doubt she's forgotten it. Though considering her death temporary setback, maybe she has forgotten, who knows?
Logic vs. emotions with this show? Logic goes out the window. I've learned that this week. Character love can trump all. It's probably why we all still watch the show. And while we are still waiting on it!
*nods* And waiting, and waiting. Hm. I really need to finish that Racetrack on Earth fic before season four ends up jossing it completely. *gingerly pokes muse*
Much discussion has gone into RDM's 'tomcatting' comment about Starbuck and Anders' line, "you think you were the first?" I choose to believe Sam was just baiting Lee with that, I mean Kara is not Ellen Tigh. (Shoot, on NC, even Ellen Tigh wasn't quite Ellen Tigh.)
Yeah, I personally like the whole 'baiting' Lee theory; apparently Trucco and Sackhoff do, too. And it worked; Lee's face right after Sam said it was just all kinds of woobified.
I also don't think that Sam and Kara promised fidelity. She doesn't seem concerned with that little vow and frankly, neither does he.
Hm. I can see that in Kara but I'm not sure I see it in Sam. And actually I wouldn't have said that before the whole Occupation arc; I'm guessing she really tried (before she got taken by Leoben) to be a good wife, though it wouldn't have been easy for her. Not because she's incapable of fidelity but because her first instinct is always to run away from whatever is making her face real intimacy. After New Caprica, though, she redefined everything and Sam let her. He took what he could get. As far as strategies go (for getting her back), it wasn't great but there weren't many options, either.
Any scene with Kara and Leoben romantically would have some issues with consent. The guy imprisoned her. She's not just going to fall willingly into bed with him. Doesn't means she doesn't have attraction to him (see: writhing and gasping) but doesn't mean she really wants to do it, either.
*sniff* I know. Doesn't mean I have to like it. *sulks*
I think I'm going to have to revise who I say is my favorite character. Because clearly it's not Kara if Leoben's around. He's like a trump card over my Kara-compassion. During 'Collaborators' for example, Kara's being horrible to Felix and I feel bad for both of them, but especially Kara--even though Felix should get more of my sympathy. But put Leoben onscreen and I don't care what happens to Kara nearly as much as I want to see Leoben playing mind games. So the paint!scene just wasn't what I wanted as a Leoben-fan, because that wasn't really him. And it wasn't what I wanted as a Kara fan because what I like about her is how she never gives up, but she did that time. She might run away but if she sticks around, she keeps trying and trying... and she just let that all fall away that time.
Speaking of trump cards--emotion wins out over cool logic, because now I'm getting to the point where logically the scene makes a certain degree of sense. But emotionally I just don't want to accept it. I think it's why I'm a better Kara-fan than Lee-fan because Lee often (not always, though) makes sense to me, but logic isn't what makes me prefer Kara over Lee.
*headdesk* I'm going on too long to fit this in one comment box.
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Hee! I was a bit odd but so cute! Sometimes one needs a bit of humor. ;-) Glad you liked it.
After New Caprica, though, she redefined everything and Sam let her. He took what he could get.
I agree. I think that while Dee and Sam loves their spouses after a while they both took what they could get. It's the end of the world, you compromise. I also said this (that fidelity didn't mean much) about Sam because at one point he encouraged Kara to follow her heart and go to Lee. He just wanted her to be happy. It's one thing Sam and I have in common.
(Btw way, Sam has changed too. I saw your comment about his morning after horniness cleverness. Morning afters surely changed for them. I like season 3 Sam better. He was so honest. I really respected that.)
*sniff* I know. Doesn't mean I have to like it. *sulks*
I know, I know. I was a bit in denial too. Some people saw the chemistry and her reluctant attraction in F&B but not me. I saw it in Exodus Pt.2, but paint!sex was the clincher. I don't know if I like it but I've accepted it. Hey, maybe if Kara's aware of this she can be even stronger when she faces him.
I think I'm going to have to revise who I say is my favorite character.
Oh noes! You don't want to revise! You really don't, do you? You care about her, you're just fascinated by him. He's hypnotic like that. But you're not fascninated enough to want him to hurt her mind? You don't want him to win. Besides he's not going to. Remember paint!sex was a dream. Not real. She hasn't given up. She just had to realize some truths about herself to fight another day.
I'm getting to the point where logically the scene makes a certain degree of sense. But emotionally I just don't want to accept it.
Ah, emotions. I think I've figured out the scene logically. But emotionally? Emotionally my girl is hurting and messed up and while she and Leoben have that chemistry, I just worry for her the whole time I watch it. Part of me likes to see them together and the other part of me flinches the entire time. That's always been my emotional reading of the scene. I think that was intended and damn them, it worked.
Logic vs. emotions with this show? Logic goes out the window. I've learned that this week. Character love can trump all. It's probably why we all still watch the show. And while we are still waiting on it!
Reply
I think she'd have to face up to it in some way--'cause that was one heckuva dream and I doubt she's forgotten it. Though considering her death temporary setback, maybe she has forgotten, who knows?
Logic vs. emotions with this show? Logic goes out the window. I've learned that this week. Character love can trump all. It's probably why we all still watch the show. And while we are still waiting on it!
*nods* And waiting, and waiting. Hm. I really need to finish that Racetrack on Earth fic before season four ends up jossing it completely. *gingerly pokes muse*
Reply
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