Monday morning and other nasties
Well, it is Monday, after all. You have to expect nasty.
My nasty started yesterday of course. Or even the night before that. Saturday night we had duck for dinner as you may recall. And I had Gravy* and Gorgeous Golden Crackly Skin.
And Sunday morning I was 12.37 pounds heavier than I’d been the day before and could barely ( Read more... )
OK, seriously, that made me laugh so loud I startled the cat. :)
LAST UNICORN was positively one of the shaping forces of my preteenhood--specifically for his style. FINE AND PRIVATE too.
I don't think I read it until I was in late high school--but then, oh. Oh, wow. "Anything that can die is beautiful--more beautiful than a unicorn, which lives forever and is the most beautiful creature in the world." That one sentence (which I may well have misquoted slightly) makes me bite my lip each time I read it. A Fine and Private Place came into my hands much later, and in some ways it was even more sharply moving--hard to read, almost. I don't often re-read that one.
There aren't too many writers I do that with: Tolkien and Kipling. And Beagle. (And Dickinson. Occasionally *he* notices too. :))
And Chandler? :) That's pretty funny--imagining Peter saying, hmm, you got a bit of me on this page, dear... But yes, it's a rare author who grabs me like they do, not just with the intricacy of their plots or their well-drawn characters, but with the way the book itself is phrased, page after page after page. Now I think of it, I would put Kipling in that category for me also, though not quite as intensely as the other two. Lovecraft, sometimes, but an awful lot of his stuff just gives me the willies. :)
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************ OH good. I like to have my effect. :)
LAST UNICORN was positively one of the shaping forces of my preteenhood--specifically for his style. FINE AND PRIVATE too.
I don't think I read it until I was in late high school--but then, oh. Oh, wow. "Anything that can die is beautiful--more beautiful than a unicorn, which lives forever and is the most beautiful creature in the world." That one sentence (which I may well have misquoted slightly) makes me bite my lip each time I read it. A Fine and Private Place came into my hands much later, and in some ways it was even more sharply moving--hard to read, almost. I don't often re-read that one.
************ Yes I agree. My first editor liked FINE better. I could see why.
There aren't too many writers I do that with: Tolkien and Kipling. And Beagle. (And Dickinson. Occasionally *he* notices too. :))
And Chandler? :)
************ Yes! And Chandler! And you haven't come up with that (SHORT) list of Gardners for me!
That's pretty funny--imagining Peter saying, hmm, you got a bit of me on this page, dear...
*********** The funniest was when he once literally did this, and for a line *I* knew I'd poached. :)
But yes, it's a rare author who grabs me like they do, not just with the intricacy of their plots or their well-drawn characters, but with the way the book itself is phrased,
************** YES.
page after page after page. Now I think of it, I would put Kipling in that category for me also, though not quite as intensely as the other two. Lovecraft, sometimes, but an awful lot of his stuff just gives me the willies. :)
*************** Way to willie-y for me although I know what you mean. . . . There must be some others, but it's late at night. And in terms of *formative* influences I've only got a FEW. I don't think you can have too many or you'll just *splatter.*
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Workin' on it! See, when I went to the shelf (floor section) where I've got all that stuff, I found my copy of The Black Mask Boys, and remembering your exhortation on Chandler I decided to pull it out and re-read the Chandler story in that collection, and I got all sidetracked. (And yes I do see why you love his writing. And yet...I still wanted to punch Marlowe square in the junk, for almost the entire story. I'm sorry.)
The funniest was when he once literally did this, and for a line *I* knew I'd poached. :)
Ha! busted. :)
Way to willie-y for me although I know what you mean. . . .
I think I would have guessed you were not particularly a Lovecraft fan. He has grown on me, I used to not be able to read him at all and then after getting into his more fantasy-based stuff I kind of worked sideways around into his more horror-ish short stories. But I still can't force myself to read his longer works--even the Call of Cthulhu. It's somehow both scary and tedious, all at the same time. Yech.
And in terms of *formative* influences I've only got a FEW. I don't think you can have too many or you'll just *splatter.*
You're probably right, our brains automatically cap it off after a few. I was thinking about this after reading your earlier remark about Last Unicorn... what would I call a formative book of my pre-teen years? The only one I could come up with was Ellen Raskin's "The Westing Game," which helped shape the way I like to write, and also the way I tend to think. :) Words as clues and tools for puzzles, and playing around with double and triple meanings for things... yep, I'm for that.
Now, the Gardners. I'll keep it to three titles. Will have it for you shortly. :)
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************ Oh heavens! That's normal. :) I tend to want to slap him up longside the head, but it's the same thing. And his women are all bimbos with a capital B. But how can you resist someone who can write lines like 'I had been stalking the bluebottle fly for five minutes, waiting for him to sit down. He didn't want to sit down. He just wanted to do wing-overs and sing the prologue to 'Pagliacci'.' I've got the book out to make sure I'm quoting it correctly, but a bluebottle fly singing the prologue to Pagliacci has been with me for about forty years. :)
Ha! busted. :)
*********** It happens. :)
I think I would have guessed you were not particularly a Lovecraft fan. It's somehow both scary and tedious, all at the same time. Yech.
*********** Yes well however many times I tell myself IT DOESN'T FREAKING WORK I'm not going to forgive him The Rats in the Walls any time soon. Some of his longer stuff is so portentous it ends up just making me laugh though.
what would I call a formative book of my pre-teen years? The only one I could come up with was Ellen Raskin's "The Westing Game," which helped shape the way I like to write, and also the way I tend to think. :) Words as clues and tools for puzzles, and playing around with double and triple meanings for things... yep, I'm for that.
********** Okay, that's really interesting because that's so NOT me. I read WESTING GAME as a grown up and it made me nuts. And I've only started pun type silliness in comparatively speaking the last few years. Sober citizen, that's me. (And if you believe that, I have this bridge . . . )
Now, the Gardners. I'll keep it to three titles. Will have it for you shortly. :)
*********** Preferably ones that are EASY to find, okay??!
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Damn. That IS good.
Yes well however many times I tell myself IT DOESN'T FREAKING WORK I'm not going to forgive him The Rats in the Walls any time soon.
Point taken. I think one of the first ones I read was The Fungi From Yuggoth, and I had pulled it off a bookshelf in a friend's house where I was spending the night... strange house + scary story = bad combo. I didn't go back to it for years. (the story, or for that matter the house.)
Some of his longer stuff is so portentous it ends up just making me laugh though.
One of the editions of the Call of Cthulhu role-playing game had a 3 page, 2 column tiny-type list of Lovecraftian adjectives which you could randomly use to describe things in your game. "Let's see.... the monster is....hmm... rugose...cyclopean...and indescribable." It's hard to take him too seriously after a while.
Okay, that's really interesting because that's so NOT me. I read WESTING GAME as a grown up and it made me nuts.
Well, we have to diverge at some points for the Angry Cow and Grumpy Bear show to stay interesting. :) So nuts, how? I'm a puzzle person, but not at all with numbers; I think Westing Game was my first realization that words themselves were a type of puzzle--depending on how you lock them together, you can make something that looks different depending on the viewing angle... but remember, I was about 12 when I read it. It might have seemed less earth-shattering had I been older. But it was quite a changeup from the books that were in vogue at the time with my friends. And other than Tolkien, I didn't really get into fantasy til later on. I might have found Susan Cooper at around 11 or 12, I can't remember.
I've only started pun type silliness in comparatively speaking the last few years
I, on the other hand, found Piers Anthony absolutely hilarious til about the 6th or 7th book, when I realized that there IS such a thing as too much stupid punning, and that he'd actually gone over that line about 3 books back. :)
(And if you believe that, I have this bridge . . . )
No takers. :)
Preferably ones that are EASY to find, okay??!
Ah, the beauty of Gardner is that nearly everything he ever wrote is STILL IN PRINT. In the 10,000th printing of the 4,000th edition... Though as most bookstores won't stock all seventy-odd Perry Mason novels all the time, it may yet be a bit of a crapshoot.
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********* And I was blighted for life when the narrator of Attack of the [Some Adjective Here] Mushroom People turns around at the end of the film. I blighted easily, I admit.
One of the editions of the Call of Cthulhu role-playing game had a 3 page, 2 column tiny-type list of Lovecraftian adjectives which you could randomly use to describe things in your game. "Let's see.... the monster is....hmm... rugose...cyclopean...and indescribable." It's hard to take him too seriously after a while.
********** Rugose! Yesssssss! I'd forgotten this--I now think of rugose as wrinkly rugosa roses. I'm going to be laughing among the rose bushes a lot more this summer. Pity my neighbours. :)
Well, we have to diverge at some points for the Angry Cow and Grumpy Bear show to stay interesting. :)
*********** True.
So nuts, how? I'm a puzzle person, but not at all with numbers; I think Westing Game was my first realization that words themselves were a type of puzzle--depending on how you lock them together, you can make something that looks different depending on the viewing angle
********** For me it prevented the story ever becoming a story. It was all just puzzle pieces. Again, remember, this is **just me**. I am not offering it as literary criticism.
... but remember, I was about 12 when I read it. It might have seemed less earth-shattering had I been older. But it was quite a changeup from the books that were in vogue at the time with my friends. And other than Tolkien, I didn't really get into fantasy til later on. I might have found Susan Cooper at around 11 or 12, I can't remember.
********** I have always drifted in and out of fantasy. Too much already in my head, maybe. :) But when I was growing up fantasy-as-we-know-it-Jim didn't freaking EXIST yet. I read fairy tales and James Branch Cabell because that's what there WAS. I read Tolkien BEFORE he was Tolkien. :) But a lot of the comfort-reading series-fantasy now that True Afficionados read . . . I can't get through the first page or the first set-up.
I, on the other hand, found Piers Anthony absolutely hilarious til about the 6th or 7th book, when I realized that there IS such a thing as too much stupid punning, and that he'd actually gone over that line about 3 books back. :)
************ He's one I've never *been* able to read. But I was Already Old when he started publishing, I think.
Ah, the beauty of Gardner is that nearly everything he ever wrote is STILL IN PRINT. In the 10,000th printing of the 4,000th edition... Though as most bookstores won't stock all seventy-odd Perry Mason novels all the time, it may yet be a bit of a crapshoot.
************ Hey. We have the WEB. We can SPECIAL ORDER. :)
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Rugose? :) Amorphous? Antediluvian? Sanguinary? Pseudopodial? Luminescent?
I'm going to be laughing among the rose bushes a lot more this summer. Pity my neighbours. :)
I'd pity them more if your roses had other Lovecraftian adjectives attached, as above. "Gah! The new McKinley hybrid is Iridescently Malevolent!" *arg blargle chomp*
Again, remember, this is **just me**. I am not offering it as literary criticism.
Of course--just as it's just me as well! :) But even if you were offering it as lit crit, I wouldn't be particularly bothered--doesn't make me like Raskin's books less, or question my mental faculties just yet. There's plenty of other things to make me do that.
when I was growing up fantasy-as-we-know-it-Jim didn't freaking EXIST yet.
Though Star Trek came out in your teen years, no? :) Damn it Jim--I'm a doctor, not a fantasy author!
I read fairy tales and James Branch Cabell because that's what there WAS. I read Tolkien BEFORE he was Tolkien. :) But a lot of the comfort-reading series-fantasy now that True Afficionados read . . . I can't get through the first page or the first set-up.
Yes, developing my reading tastes in the late 70's and into the 80's provided me with a fairly fantasy-rich environment... though I think as a little kid my main "fantasy" beyond Tolkien and Lewis was the Brothers Grimm. Oh, and Lloyd Alexander, come to think of it. I knew there was someone else from my pre-high school years. I came across your books much later, not til college or a little after. And I think I've probably missed out on a lot of what the True Afficionados read... as I said before, I'm picky about my fantasy and sci-fi. :)
But I was Already Old when he started publishing, I think.
This may be true. But I would hazard the opinion that his JOKES were already old when YOU started publishing. :) Seriously, that dude has no shame. But I did get a lot of pleasure out of reading his books when I was 16. Can't knock that.
And I find most of my pulp books on the web--I figure that's what it's there for! To connect me with musty bookshops across the country. I like Alibris a lot, as they let me search by title, publisher, format, and print year (Pocket PB, no earlier than 1955) and it's all these little hole-in-the-wall small mystery bookshops that I feel good about giving my money to. Don't know if there is a similar network for British booksellers... there should be. But I suspect I'm near my limit on this post, so the Gardner recs will have to go in another comment!
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Rugose? :) Amorphous? Antediluvian? Sanguinary? Pseudopodial? Luminescent?
*********** Ugly? :)
I'm going to be laughing among the rose bushes a lot more this summer. Pity my neighbours. :)
I'd pity them more if your roses had other Lovecraftian adjectives attached, as above. "Gah! The new McKinley hybrid is Iridescently Malevolent!" *arg blargle chomp*
*********** ROFL! sorry, this completely destroyed me!
when I was growing up fantasy-as-we-know-it-Jim didn't freaking EXIST yet.
Though Star Trek came out in your teen years, no? :)
********** Yes, junior high. And it was an UTTERLY NEW THING and like NOTHING ELSE and everyone who loved it was AUTOMATICALLY A GEEK. And that was *way* before geeks were cool.
I'm picky about my fantasy and sci-fi. :)
************ Good for you. Among other thing you have to choose SOMEHOW. :)
And I find most of my pulp books on the web--I figure that's what it's there for! To connect me with musty bookshops across the country. I like Alibris a lot, as they let me search by title, publisher, format, and print year (Pocket PB, no earlier than 1955) and it's all these little hole-in-the-wall small mystery bookshops that I feel good about giving my money to.
************ My problem is how do you identify the ones who will send you the books and how do you identify the ones who will lose your check?
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That too.
* ROFL! sorry, this completely destroyed me!
Oh goody! (I had this vision of your neighbors glancing out the window, very stereotypically British... "I say, my dear, there seems to be a flesh-eating plant coming up the walk." "You don't say, Basil?" "Mmm, yes. It's just eaten the dachsund." and it just went on from there...)
And it was an UTTERLY NEW THING and like NOTHING ELSE and everyone who loved it was AUTOMATICALLY A GEEK
My parents were a young married couple at the time, and my father who had sworn he would never, EVER buy a TV set.... bought one. Just to watch Star Trek. I was doomed, even before birth, to be a nerd.
My problem is how do you identify the ones who will send you the books and how do you identify the ones who will lose your check?
Well, in the case of Alibris, much like Ebay it has a buyer rating system. If someone sends me something which isn't as advertised (or doesn't send it at all) I can give them a low rating; when I buy, I can avoid the sellers who others have dinged for poor service. There are no guarantees, but I've not had a problem yet.
Ok, the much awaited Gardner recs. Please keep in mind that I am NOT recommending these because they are shining examples of literary craftsmanship, but merely because I think Gardner's fun to read--and is completely unlike Chandler and Hammett, for all that they are in the same pulp genre bucket. All of these feature a decent plot, female characters who--whatever else they may be--are neither Evil Vixens or Bimbos--and Gardner's signature rapidfire dialogue writing style.
1) The Case of the Dangerous Dowager (1937)
2) The Case of the Fan-Dancer's Horse (1947)
3) The Case of the Terrified Typist (1956)
So really, you could read any of them, (or all of them if you have a sudden unexpected burst of enthusiasm) and you will have a pretty good sense of Gardner's approach.
Bonus recommendations are Case of the Velvet Claws (1929, I think) which is the first Mason novel and is far more like standard pulp, very two fisted with scheming women and brutish men. It's good for contrast, though I don't like it much. And if you happen across any of the Donald Lam-Bertha Cool novels by A.A. Fair, you might pick one up, it's the only pulp detective stuff I've ever read with a tough broad character as one of the series leads. (Fair is Gardner's pseudonym, and most of those books are NOT presently in print. They're not as good as the Mason novels, but Bertha's an unusual character in my experience and it's worth a read if you find one in the 50p bin at the bookseller.)
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********* LOL!!!! My neighbours at the top of the hill TO THE LIFE. And furthermore THEY HAVE DACHSHUNDS. And why hasn't either of us mentioned Little Shop of Horrors yet? FEEEEEEED MEEEEEE. :)
And it was an UTTERLY NEW THING and like NOTHING ELSE and everyone who loved it was AUTOMATICALLY A GEEK
My parents were a young married couple at the time, and my father who had sworn he would never, EVER buy a TV set.... bought one. Just to watch Star Trek. I was doomed, even before birth, to be a nerd.
*********** Whereas I had to INVENT it, entirely without help. Oh, well, barring my first boyfriend in 8th grade.
Well, in the case of Alibris, much like Ebay it has a buyer rating system. If someone sends me something which isn't as advertised (or doesn't send it at all) I can give them a low rating; when I buy, I can avoid the sellers who others have dinged for poor service. There are no guarantees, but I've not had a problem yet.
********** I did once several years ago and just stopped using it. Maybe it's improved.
1) The Case of the Dangerous Dowager (1937)
2) The Case of the Fan-Dancer's Horse (1947)
3) The Case of the Terrified Typist (1956)
************ THE FAN DANCER'S HORSE??!??? Okay, read that one (and the first) for the title alone. Now I've read Terrified Typist but I can't remember a thing about it. That's okay. :)
Thanks ! (cutting to salve lj's delicate sensibilities)
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GET OUT! Really??? Oh, that's priceless. I think I picked dachshunds because they seem like easy rosebush prey. :)
And why hasn't either of us mentioned Little Shop of Horrors yet?
"FEED ME, ROBIN! FEED ME SO THAT I MAY BECOME EVEN MORE LOATHSOMELY BULBOUS!" (Really, HPL had a lot of adjectives...)
Whereas I had to INVENT it, entirely without help. Oh, well, barring my first boyfriend in 8th grade.
Yeah, by the early 1980's there were nerd support groups in middle schools everywhere. :) I think they called it "chess club." But still, the boyfriend, that's a start.
On the topic of fantasy-as-we-know-it-Jim, did you encounter Lord Dunsany during your formative period? I am way late to the game on his stuff, but he's on my to-read list.
THE FAN DANCER'S HORSE??!??? Okay, read that one (and the first) for the title alone. Now I've read Terrified Typist but I can't remember a thing about it. That's okay. :)
Oh yes--I think I like Terrified Typist because the ending genuinely surprised me, and because it doesn't start off with the standard "hot girl comes to Perry's office for help with a case" opening that so many of these novels do. Well, let me know what you think, even if you hate them--at least they can't be any worse for you than the Golden Compass movie! I think. :)
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************ Yes. And William Morris. And Charles Williams. And some of the classic horror writers--Bram Stoker, obviously, and MR James in particular.
I am way late to the game on his stuff, but he's on my to-read list.
***************YOU HAVEN'T READ DUNSANY YET???? Good gods, woman, put EVERYTHING down and read him NOW.
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I only found out about him in context of "Where is Lovecraft's Dreamlands stuff coming from anyway?" and the answer was Dunsany. Late to the game, as I said... Do you have a particular Favorite Thing I should start with, or shall I just plunge in?
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Then, if you're not hooked . . . well, there's something WRONG with you. :)
LOL! There are miriads of things wrong with me, but I suspect this isn't going to be one of them! :)
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