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kaynorr October 5 2009, 14:42:58 UTC
You probably don’t want it to be guaranteed, as this undermines the suspense and narrative uncertainty we get from use of the dice. But over time it should be happen way more often than not.

This deserves reiteration because, IMHO, there is no faster way to derail the fun of an iconic PC's player than have him do His Schtick and fail. The failure of an iconic ethos should be a significant moment in a character's story, but the dice can have an annoying habit of popping these up at an inopportune moment.

Generically speaking, I would think that the chance to success when using an iconic ethos should start at 1 (narratively, success almost always comes early, unless your talking about The Big Clusterfuck that starts a story) and then slowly drop as the PC calls upon his ethos more and more frequently.

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lightcastle October 5 2009, 14:53:02 UTC
This deserves reiteration because, IMHO, there is no faster way to derail the fun of an iconic PC's player than have him do His Schtick and fail. The failure of an iconic ethos should be a significant moment in a character's story, but the dice can have an annoying habit of popping these up at an inopportune moment.

Seconded. (Or is that thirded?) One of the things I like in HQ is that it lends itself to avoiding this problem, wherehas even the best builds in many systems allow for it to not work.

Of course, when a schtick fails, many a player I know will roll with it. (This seemed easier in older-school D&D than modern, where so much of the build interlocks.)

I saw a Paladin question his faith after a Holy Smite failed (with a 1). Great fun.

On your second point, I'm not sure about it starts at 1 and drops. That seems counter to most narrative structure. If anything I could see it be more of a U. Certainly by the end it has risen in effectiveness again assuming the character has overcome their doubts and such?

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richardthinks October 5 2009, 17:09:28 UTC
Now I'm imagining an ethos bar, like the "energy" in games like Rockband, that fills up when you play to your type and eventually hits a "use me or lose me" threshold of iconic Potential. Ethos points?

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lightcastle October 5 2009, 19:10:03 UTC
In one sense, there really isn't any reason NOT to have one, especially if it is genre important.

If we have a Madness Meter, there isn't any reason not to have an Ethos Bar.

Hell, call it "Conviction".

Sorcerer had its Humanity score, and that could be adapted if you were playing that.

In HQ I can see just tracking it as a stat. In fact, naming a stat directly as the ethos works quite straightforwardly in it. You can even apply lingering benefits and penalties to it if it comes into play, which might map the up and down of conviction quite well.

I think The Riddle of Steel had something that worked like this.

But I'd LOVE to see an actual "Ethos Bar" in a computer RPG. It would be an interesting way to make a philosophy/ethic mechanically interesting in a given game.

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kaynorr October 5 2009, 17:10:16 UTC
Seconded. (Or is that thirded?) One of the things I like in HQ is that it lends itself to avoiding this problem, wherehas even the best builds in many systems allow for it to not work.I think something like this works best in a system that resolves conflicts primarily at the dramatic, zero-sum level. This allows the ethos to both help the character success and avoid the consequences of failure - in keeping with how an ethos can be as much about how the world interacts with the hero than how the hero interacts with the world ( ... )

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lightcastle October 5 2009, 19:12:08 UTC
I think something like this works best in a system that resolves conflicts primarily at the dramatic, zero-sum level. This allows the ethos to both help the character success and avoid the consequences of failure - in keeping with how an ethos can be as much about how the world interacts with the hero than how the hero interacts with the world.

I think you said this far better than I. :)

When an iconic character fails with regard to his ethos, there would seem to be two (well, more like one-and-a-half) explanaions. The first is that his understanding of the ethos is incomplete, the second is that his understanding is sound but his manifestation of it ist still imperfect. Either way the answer is more personal growth and "attunement" with the ethos.

I agree. In narrative, it almost always leads to some sort of re-evaluation and attunement, to use your word.

What happens after the failure, is what defines an iconic character in that his ethos' ability rapidly returns to 1 (for GM-mediated forms of 'rapid'). He takes his licks, ( ... )

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