Yeah...that describes it. Life has been blah lately. Last week was a fiasco. It is amazing how a series of delayed flights on Sunday night can affect the rest of the week
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I hear you. I have a shitload of implementable ideas to get the party rolling but all of the ideas require having a sufficient number of people who have both time and political acumen, and we just don't have them right now.
I don't really agree with scooterbird; I think the "two camps" thing is a symptom more than anything else. Take people with time and no political acumen and thrust them into roles where people with political acumen should be, and you get the bullshit we see at the national party level right now, with the result that those of us who are actually trying to GET SHIT DONE have to waste our time with the people who shouldn't be there and who aren't actually doing anything productive.
I'm not talking ideology, either. I'm literally talking about people who are fucking clueless about things but who keep fucking with shit and who turn into ranting ideologues because they're unable to do anything else. If it was only ideological disagreements but still people who knew how to get things done, it'd be different, you know?
I'm cautiously optimistic about 2006 at the state level, because I think we've stumbled into a legitimately decent state slate and I think we can do well with it. Locally, I'm on an island... I am getting a lot of help from people with petitioning, but they're not doing it for the party, they're doing it for me personally, and they're not into politics or anything.
More fun last night, and it looks like more email fun resulting from that. I can't wait.
Right on...robb_blackDecember 7 2005, 19:25:48 UTC
You are absolutely correct when you say
**Take people with time and no political acumen and thrust them into roles where people with political acumen should be, and you get the bullshit we see at the national party level right now, with the result that those of us who are actually trying to GET SHIT DONE have to waste our time with the people who shouldn't be there and who aren't actually doing anything productive.**
I think that is why people are leaving the party or just not interested in it anymore. At the local level, I'm lucky enough to be part of a good group of people who understand politics and organizing so it makes things more bearable. But we just don't have the people stepping up to run for office and this is an important year for us! We need to have a decent showing (by showing I mean number of candidates running) in our county otherwise all the people who have been watching us and quietly supporting us will lose interest.
scooterbird is right about the two camps. I think it is more than just a symptom however, I think it is more an issue of ideology and sense of purpose. The people who want to destroy the Democrat Party essentially want to see it reform itself or be punished by the Green Party. They do not view the Green Party as an independent sustainable political party, they view it as a club with which they can beat Democrats over the head. Some of these people who hold this view do have political acumen -- just look at New Palz. So it is more like a venn diagram where we have a population of those who have political acumen overlapping with a population of those who want to use the GPUS to reform/punish the Democrats. Then you have a second grouping of a population lacking acumen overlapping a population of the reform/punish Democrats. It is a deadly mix.
I've said it before and I'll say it again....I'm really glad I'm an anarchist.
PS: I have to keep thinking about this venn diagram thing...I'm not sure if I'm totally correct with it, but I think I'm close.
Re: Right on...kakistocracyDecember 7 2005, 19:49:09 UTC
I don't think New Paltz is a good example necessarily. Jason West isn't a Democrat-hater. He's a sharp guy with legitimate political acumen and who views the party as a sustainable independent party.
A lot of people within the Green Party simply hate the Democrats more than they hate the Republicans. They are psychologically drawn to "outsider politics" and thrive in conflict roles. They are more interested in attacking the Democrats' views on the war than on articulating nonviolent solutions, as a good example.
Reality is that a lot of those people were logically drawn to the Nader camp in 2004 because Nader epitomized "outsider politics" in a lot of ways. So the overlap between that ideological construct and the Nader/Cobb breakdown is pretty strong; but the Nader/Cobb thing is really just a proxy for the real issue. The real issue is that there's a large number of people who aren't really interested in building the party up except insomuch that it can be an attack pulpit. That doesn't mean that there aren't people on the soft left who were attracted by soft oppositional politics and embraced safe states or whatever. Both of those extremes within the party are dangerous to the party's long-term growth, but they're also going to continue to stick around. That's politics.
But what do I know? I'm a clique insider who gets my positions because I have friends in connected places. They made me co-chair of the Ballot Access Committee, after all! Nevermind that I was the lone voice demanding we have that committee and am the lone person doing anything to make it a reality, clearly this is all just a power ploy on my part!
I don't really agree with scooterbird; I think the "two camps" thing is a symptom more than anything else. Take people with time and no political acumen and thrust them into roles where people with political acumen should be, and you get the bullshit we see at the national party level right now, with the result that those of us who are actually trying to GET SHIT DONE have to waste our time with the people who shouldn't be there and who aren't actually doing anything productive.
I'm not talking ideology, either. I'm literally talking about people who are fucking clueless about things but who keep fucking with shit and who turn into ranting ideologues because they're unable to do anything else. If it was only ideological disagreements but still people who knew how to get things done, it'd be different, you know?
I'm cautiously optimistic about 2006 at the state level, because I think we've stumbled into a legitimately decent state slate and I think we can do well with it. Locally, I'm on an island... I am getting a lot of help from people with petitioning, but they're not doing it for the party, they're doing it for me personally, and they're not into politics or anything.
More fun last night, and it looks like more email fun resulting from that. I can't wait.
Reply
**Take people with time and no political acumen and thrust them into roles where people with political acumen should be, and you get the bullshit we see at the national party level right now, with the result that those of us who are actually trying to GET SHIT DONE have to waste our time with the people who shouldn't be there and who aren't actually doing anything productive.**
I think that is why people are leaving the party or just not interested in it anymore. At the local level, I'm lucky enough to be part of a good group of people who understand politics and organizing so it makes things more bearable. But we just don't have the people stepping up to run for office and this is an important year for us! We need to have a decent showing (by showing I mean number of candidates running) in our county otherwise all the people who have been watching us and quietly supporting us will lose interest.
scooterbird is right about the two camps. I think it is more than just a symptom however, I think it is more an issue of ideology and sense of purpose. The people who want to destroy the Democrat Party essentially want to see it reform itself or be punished by the Green Party. They do not view the Green Party as an independent sustainable political party, they view it as a club with which they can beat Democrats over the head. Some of these people who hold this view do have political acumen -- just look at New Palz. So it is more like a venn diagram where we have a population of those who have political acumen overlapping with a population of those who want to use the GPUS to reform/punish the Democrats. Then you have a second grouping of a population lacking acumen overlapping a population of the reform/punish Democrats. It is a deadly mix.
I've said it before and I'll say it again....I'm really glad I'm an anarchist.
PS: I have to keep thinking about this venn diagram thing...I'm not sure if I'm totally correct with it, but I think I'm close.
Reply
A lot of people within the Green Party simply hate the Democrats more than they hate the Republicans. They are psychologically drawn to "outsider politics" and thrive in conflict roles. They are more interested in attacking the Democrats' views on the war than on articulating nonviolent solutions, as a good example.
Reality is that a lot of those people were logically drawn to the Nader camp in 2004 because Nader epitomized "outsider politics" in a lot of ways. So the overlap between that ideological construct and the Nader/Cobb breakdown is pretty strong; but the Nader/Cobb thing is really just a proxy for the real issue. The real issue is that there's a large number of people who aren't really interested in building the party up except insomuch that it can be an attack pulpit. That doesn't mean that there aren't people on the soft left who were attracted by soft oppositional politics and embraced safe states or whatever. Both of those extremes within the party are dangerous to the party's long-term growth, but they're also going to continue to stick around. That's politics.
But what do I know? I'm a clique insider who gets my positions because I have friends in connected places. They made me co-chair of the Ballot Access Committee, after all! Nevermind that I was the lone voice demanding we have that committee and am the lone person doing anything to make it a reality, clearly this is all just a power ploy on my part!
Reply
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