from the DVD extras

[rm]

So Kali and I are talking about various Torchwood continuity problems and how they make Jack (especially in light of stunts Ianto, John Hart and Gwen pull at various points) look like the crappiest conman EVER

Comments

[afterthree]

*laughs* It's very, very true.

[demotu]

HAHA yes.

Especially to the "Sorta. Yeah."

It is a bit of a mystery how Jack - who should, in fanon-world, at least, be excellent at reading body language - misses so many vital cues. Though I think he was (a) willfully blind (with the Cyberwoman), (b) too trusting (Adrift), (c) letting people make their own mistakes (Tosh in GBG - it was, of course, really clear there he did suss what was going on) and as for John Hart - I don't know. Some combinaiton of nostalgia and 'he's gonna screw me so lets help him and see how' attitude?

[rm]

Yeah, I think with John he was sort of enjoying the game and it was a good distraction from how not totally enthused his team was to see him. And I get him being blinded by lust and self-absorption re: Ianto, but he's just a lazy slacker in Adrift (although Ianto is using sex against him there too, I think is what the deal is).

GBG creates different continuity/universe building concerns, mostly with regard to psychic training and the like. We're trying to address that in our CERN fluff, oddly enough.

[demotu]

Arg, I still haven't listened to the CERN radio play. Must find a copy to download somewhere...

[rm]

Ianto cries.

That's sort of all you really need to know. Other than the thought of Jack, Gwen and Ianto flying coach to Switzerland.

But it's cute, worth a listen.

[cruentum]

He is the worst conman ever. With the canon they give us it is in fact hard to believe he ever was a conman. I think he only liked to see himself as one.

[gement]

He actually reminds me of Malcolm Reynolds in that respect. Ooh, the big scary tough maverick who's out to run a string of... totally unsuccessful schemes. You'd almost think he's doing it on purpose.

[rm]

I, weirdly, think it's pretty consistent. Jack knows he doesn't want to be in charge. But he has some weird ego invested in being perceived as the alpha everything, and he just can't stop himself from trying to put on that show. It's sort of sad.

[laurab1]

I don't think he was a great conman, though. I've had Rose say that it was a good job they'd rescued him ;)

[bodlon]

*snort*

It really is true. I think Jack's conman skills are less about the big plotty cons and more about the "I'm so dashing and charming, I will distract you while I steal your cutlery" cons.

Also, I kind of suspect that cloak and dagger work really isn't in his true nature. He can do it, but he's always read as more of an extrovert. Doesn't mean he hasn't got secrets, or that he's learned to cloister off, but he gets his energy from people.

Oh, Jack. You big dumb lump.

[rm]

Yup. In one of my Annie stories I have him getting a bit offended when she asks him if he's a spy. Like somehow that's the sin he's unwilling to commit. I'm not sure why. But I've written a lot of spy characters over the years, and Jack isn't one. Whenever the topic even comes up, I feel the character utterly curling away from it. He'll shoot someone in the back, sure, but not while telling them everything's going to be just fine.

[cruentum]

Whenever the topic even comes up, I feel the character utterly curling away from it. He'll shoot someone in the back, sure, but not while telling them everything's going to be just fine.

That's one reason why I want him to meet X-Files' Krycek somewhere, someday, in someone's fic universe. Krycek and Jack at their bastards' best and still so so different.

[laurab1]

He'd probably have trouble with a long game, yes ;)