I just can't empathise with what you are saying. My experience has been completely different. When I first became involved with DIY I did feel I was being denied opportunities because of my gender, but I realise now I was being totally uptight and stand-offish. I walked around with a bad attitude, feeling insecure and like I couldn't ever possibly get involved. I finally realised that the only thing holding me back was my own worries and self-doubts. I was so used to reading literature that tells women to expect to be treated differently, to expect to be heckled at gigs and for my contributions to be over-looked that it took me a long time to stop and look around me and question if this was likely to actually happen! And when I finally got off my arse and starting getting active I realised my doubts were pretty much unfounded. Why presume that the men in the scene are going to respond negitively? I make sure I do a good job of whatever I commit to and consequently find I have few problems and the ones I do encounter are nothing at all to do with my gender. I fully agree that women are under-represented and this needs to be rectified, but it is only ever going to come about by people putting themselves forward and taking risks? I'd like to know more about the negative experiences that people have had, because while I appreciate that sexism and prejudice still exisits I don't see it as being as pertinant as is claimed in the DIY scene. I am becomig more and more convinced that the main problems most women face when considering becoming involved in DIY music/art stem from their own insecuries, all of which cannot be blamed on men. I also firmly believe that this cycle of women putting on other 'girl' bands simply for the sake of their gender is causing more problems that it is solving. Quite simply, a lot of the bands I see at all-girl gigs are appalling, cliched rubbish with no concept of DIY thics, who make a bigger deal of their gender than the rest of the supposedly sexist scene and perpetrate this myth that women can't write/play music. I adore riot grrrl, have a huge amount of respect for talented, brave , motivated and innoventive women, but I am not going to use my gender as a smoke-screen any more.
I'd really like to print this comment (or most of it) in the zine, if that's ok. It needs more differing opinions & experiences.
I am becomig more and more convinced that the main problems most women face when considering becoming involved in DIY music/art stem from their own insecuries
This makes a lot of sense. From my own experience, I can be hesitant to get involved with anything that requires much technical knowledge - I'd fuckin LOVE to learn more about the tech-y side of DJing (beatmatching? what's that...) and I'd LOVE to learn how to work a mixing desk & lighting rig etc - but I've been patronised by sexist scene boys on a few occasions and that plus selfdoubt & not a vast amount of confidence has led to me keeping quiet & sticking to things I already know - I'm scared that if I admit I don't know how to do something I'll get a reaction of "cuh, stupid girls, shouldn't get involved with our music scene if they don't know how to do x..." As a result I don't ask, so I don't learn, so I feel ignorant, and oooh, I'm turning this into an article. :D
Thanks for your response. To be honest I was expecting to get shot down for 'speaking out'!
I know exactly what you're saying about being frightened to admit that you want to get involved but don't know where to start. I really think this is a symptom of DIY in general though and not really a gender issue - people worry that their contributions are not worthy, or valid - like the god of DIY is going to come down and mock them for thinking they could be part of something so cool! It's pretty ridiculous.
I've never felt like I couldn't get involved with something, simply because of my gender. I've posted countless bulletins and hassled numerous people over the years asking for advice and help with my various projects. The vast majorioty of replies have been from men and not one of them has had a harsh word, or patronising comment to make. I used to imagine that there were all these cool 'scene boys', who took charge and decided how things worked, but the more I put myself out there and got involved, the more I realised that this just isn't true. People don't 'own' anything - you can make DIY/punk rock whatever you want.
The only group of people who have made me doubt my ability to contribute something worthwhile (and doubt that I would be accepted for myself) were the writers of the negative zine articles that constantly insinuated that I would be somehow treated badly by the mythical male scene leaders, simply because I am a woman. Please don't think I am in denial about the existance of sexism, I just don't think the majority of people think that deeply about things. If a band's good then they get gigs; if a promotor does a decent job then people ask them to put their band on... I'm pretty certain that most people (men) can see beyond the gender of the person involved.
I think it's a great idea to turn it into an article and of course you can use my comments. Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.
When I first became involved with DIY I did feel I was being denied opportunities because of my gender, but I realise now I was being totally uptight and stand-offish. I walked around with a bad attitude, feeling insecure and like I couldn't ever possibly get involved.
I finally realised that the only thing holding me back was my own worries and self-doubts. I was so used to reading literature that tells women to expect to be treated differently, to expect to be heckled at gigs and for my contributions to be over-looked that it took me a long time to stop and look around me and question if this was likely to actually happen!
And when I finally got off my arse and starting getting active I realised my doubts were pretty much unfounded. Why presume that the men in the scene are going to respond negitively? I make sure I do a good job of whatever I commit to and consequently find I have few problems and the ones I do encounter are nothing at all to do with my gender.
I fully agree that women are under-represented and this needs to be rectified, but it is only ever going to come about by people putting themselves forward and taking risks?
I'd like to know more about the negative experiences that people have had, because while I appreciate that sexism and prejudice still exisits I don't see it as being as pertinant as is claimed in the DIY scene.
I am becomig more and more convinced that the main problems most women face when considering becoming involved in DIY music/art stem from their own insecuries, all of which cannot be blamed on men.
I also firmly believe that this cycle of women putting on other 'girl' bands simply for the sake of their gender is causing more problems that it is solving. Quite simply, a lot of the bands I see at all-girl gigs are appalling, cliched rubbish with no concept of DIY thics, who make a bigger deal of their gender than the rest of the supposedly sexist scene and perpetrate this myth that women can't write/play music.
I adore riot grrrl, have a huge amount of respect for talented, brave , motivated and innoventive women, but I am not going to use my gender as a smoke-screen any more.
Reply
I am becomig more and more convinced that the main problems most women face when considering becoming involved in DIY music/art stem from their own insecuries
This makes a lot of sense. From my own experience, I can be hesitant to get involved with anything that requires much technical knowledge - I'd fuckin LOVE to learn more about the tech-y side of DJing (beatmatching? what's that...) and I'd LOVE to learn how to work a mixing desk & lighting rig etc - but I've been patronised by sexist scene boys on a few occasions and that plus selfdoubt & not a vast amount of confidence has led to me keeping quiet & sticking to things I already know - I'm scared that if I admit I don't know how to do something I'll get a reaction of "cuh, stupid girls, shouldn't get involved with our music scene if they don't know how to do x..." As a result I don't ask, so I don't learn, so I feel ignorant, and oooh, I'm turning this into an article. :D
Reply
I know exactly what you're saying about being frightened to admit that you want to get involved but don't know where to start. I really think this is a symptom of DIY in general though and not really a gender issue - people worry that their contributions are not worthy, or valid - like the god of DIY is going to come down and mock them for thinking they could be part of something so cool!
It's pretty ridiculous.
I've never felt like I couldn't get involved with something, simply because of my gender. I've posted countless bulletins and hassled numerous people over the years asking for advice and help with my various projects. The vast majorioty of replies have been from men and not one of them has had a harsh word, or patronising comment to make. I used to imagine that there were all these cool 'scene boys', who took charge and decided how things worked, but the more I put myself out there and got involved, the more I realised that this just isn't true. People don't 'own' anything - you can make DIY/punk rock whatever you want.
The only group of people who have made me doubt my ability to contribute something worthwhile (and doubt that I would be accepted for myself) were the writers of the negative zine articles that constantly insinuated that I would be somehow treated badly by the mythical male scene leaders, simply because I am a woman. Please don't think I am in denial about the existance of sexism, I just don't think the majority of people think that deeply about things. If a band's good then they get gigs; if a promotor does a decent job then people ask them to put their band on... I'm pretty certain that most people (men) can see beyond the gender of the person involved.
I think it's a great idea to turn it into an article and of course you can use my comments. Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.
Reply
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