Friends and dating
Hey, a topic that is more fit for a Livejournal post, yay. :)
So I've been chatting with a friend of mine a bunch recently, and had started being a bit flirty with her because, well, I'm interested. But I couldn't tell from her responses if she knew I was being flirty. So I finally sent a message that included the fairly straightforward sentence: "I'll be in town, yes. I want to make sure I lay a pre-claim to some of your evenings to take you out on dates if we are both still single." The goal was to let her know that yes, I was going to be around the next time she was (she lives in another state now) and that I'd be interested in going out with her in a dating way. It communicates that pretty clearly.
Her response, disappointingly was "Yes, definitely hang out once I get back. =) You know I don't mix friends with pleasure. ;)". Ok, now I know to stop being flirty, so while it wasn't the response I wanted, the message accomplished its goal.
The problem, inasmuch as there is one, is in the wording of my friend's response. What she meant, presumably, is "you're my friend and I like you but I'm not interested in dating you". Which is, of course, totally fine. The phrase "I don't mix friends with pleasure" conveys a different message to me as a guy, however. What it says is "don't be friends with her so that maybe we can date". Now of course, that's not the meaning, she's not actually interested in me that way, not being friends wouldn't change that. But the wording has impact even though I know what she actually meant.
Now, straight up, I prefer dating my friends. My big problem with dating folks I don't know is... I don't know them! My interest in somebody grows over time as we build friendship bonds, learn about each other, and have our lives intersecting. Dating is something that, for me, wants to grow out of that. I've been on plenty of dates with folks from OkCupid, and several of them I've converted into good real life friends. But the big stumbling block for me is always that I'm chatting up a stranger. That just straight out lessens my interest. Sure I didn't know Dawn before we started flirting at the gym, but that was hanging out socially, building a friendship, at least in my mind.
The downside of women trying to soften the blow of saying "I'm not interested" by saying "I don't date my friends" is that what we say matters, and telling guys something that sounds like "if you want to date me, don't be my friend first" over and over (for whatever reason this seems to be a fairly gendered thing, though that may just be because generally men are the ones who ask people out in our culture) is a way to influence society in the direction of men thinking that they shouldn't be friends with anybody they might be attracted to. It really is better for society for you to tell your friends who are interested in you that you are not interested back if that's the case. Soften it with how awesome they are if you like, but don't say you don't date friends.
So I've been chatting with a friend of mine a bunch recently, and had started being a bit flirty with her because, well, I'm interested. But I couldn't tell from her responses if she knew I was being flirty. So I finally sent a message that included the fairly straightforward sentence: "I'll be in town, yes. I want to make sure I lay a pre-claim to some of your evenings to take you out on dates if we are both still single." The goal was to let her know that yes, I was going to be around the next time she was (she lives in another state now) and that I'd be interested in going out with her in a dating way. It communicates that pretty clearly.
Her response, disappointingly was "Yes, definitely hang out once I get back. =) You know I don't mix friends with pleasure. ;)". Ok, now I know to stop being flirty, so while it wasn't the response I wanted, the message accomplished its goal.
The problem, inasmuch as there is one, is in the wording of my friend's response. What she meant, presumably, is "you're my friend and I like you but I'm not interested in dating you". Which is, of course, totally fine. The phrase "I don't mix friends with pleasure" conveys a different message to me as a guy, however. What it says is "don't be friends with her so that maybe we can date". Now of course, that's not the meaning, she's not actually interested in me that way, not being friends wouldn't change that. But the wording has impact even though I know what she actually meant.
Now, straight up, I prefer dating my friends. My big problem with dating folks I don't know is... I don't know them! My interest in somebody grows over time as we build friendship bonds, learn about each other, and have our lives intersecting. Dating is something that, for me, wants to grow out of that. I've been on plenty of dates with folks from OkCupid, and several of them I've converted into good real life friends. But the big stumbling block for me is always that I'm chatting up a stranger. That just straight out lessens my interest. Sure I didn't know Dawn before we started flirting at the gym, but that was hanging out socially, building a friendship, at least in my mind.
The downside of women trying to soften the blow of saying "I'm not interested" by saying "I don't date my friends" is that what we say matters, and telling guys something that sounds like "if you want to date me, don't be my friend first" over and over (for whatever reason this seems to be a fairly gendered thing, though that may just be because generally men are the ones who ask people out in our culture) is a way to influence society in the direction of men thinking that they shouldn't be friends with anybody they might be attracted to. It really is better for society for you to tell your friends who are interested in you that you are not interested back if that's the case. Soften it with how awesome they are if you like, but don't say you don't date friends.