The Skills or the Talent
I don't actually understand what they ("they" being people like Bruce and Babs) mean when they say "She's not like us"[1] or "You don't have the skills or the talent"[2]. While they undervalue the person in question and set the speakers up as superior, the phrases just seem--empty and arbitrary. Like the core Bats are weakly trying to justify cutting out people who make them uncomfortable or guilty for whatever reason.
And, OK, it pisses me off that Batman jerks Steph (in particular) around[3]. Because while I get that he might have difficulty working with Huntress because her methods are too extreme, or whatever, Steph is a teenager who hasn't, actually, crossed a line. Steph's strengths clearly don't lie in the detecting side of the family business right now, but she's not bad at the rest of it. If she were given the same basic Bat-training that Tim got, she could possibly be better: she seems way more in tune with her body. Already she's fast, she's flexible, she's tolerably strong, and she's got endurance. And, man, it's not like she can't be taught the rest of it! I've never seen any indication that she wouldn't be able to learn to figure things out. Anyway, I doubt that Dick came out of the circus with Tim's innate knack for information-gathering, but he managed to pick it up well enough. I'd hypothesise--although correct me if I'm way off-base here--that it might have had something to do with Batman's making an effort to teach him, and not just in moments of favour between periods of total lock-out and discouragement.
I'm sure Bruce does have very good intentions in wanting Steph out of the game. He thinks of himself--and, presumably, of all the Gotham vigilantes who have his approval--as damaged and special[4], whereas Steph still has a chance for a normal life[5]; he says that last bit explicitly in War Drums, along with his heaps of regrets about Jason-who-was-so-much-like-Steph. But--ask me how much I think good intentions are actually worth. Also, I really can't put into words just how wrong it is to try to make decisions about Steph based on what Jason might have done, or what he might have done to save Jason. (Would Bruce want Dick and Babs to treat him the way they want to treat Helena? They see personality parallels there!)
Batman, if he deserves to be called a detective, knows that Steph is not going to give up doing what they do. How many times has he tried to get her to quit in the past?[6] Does anyone ever give it up? Bruce fired Dick, and he went off and became Nightwing. Kicking Jason off the team didn't, actually, stop him from wearing the suit--he died wearing it. Tim's out of the game at the time Steph's Robin, but he wasn't fired--he quit. And those are the people Batman gave the suit to. Stephanie was doing the masked vigilante thing before she joined the gang.
It just seems so unforgivably stupid and short-sighted for him to wash his hands of Steph when she becomes difficult, instead of trying even harder to teach her. I mean, even if she couldn't be Robin anymore, he couldn't've kept her on as backup? Have her in the cave once a week for remedial detective skills & reporting in to him whenever she went out alone as Spoiler? I mean, I get that Gotham's big on the theory that if you can't fix someone, you give him a token punishment and then set him free to continue his mistakes in near-unbroken peace, but does that have to apply to every corner of the crime-fighting business?
Really--what is it about Steph and Helena that makes them "unsuited" for the life? How are they not like the Batman-approved vigilantes?[7] What unteachable skills and talents do they lack? And why is Batman such an asshole?
[1] Babs on Helena in Nightwing/Huntress #3; the actual quote is "Huntress isn't like us, Dick". Also: "She's not stable." Er, sure thing, Babs. That makes her totally different from the rest of Gotham's vigilantes, who are each and every one free from Issues and emotional instability! Although she does maybe change her mind in Birds of Prey #84: "I was manipulating you. I convinced myself I was trying to help. I was wrong. It hurts how wrong. ... By the time I knew you--knew what you were really like--I'd already made a mess of things."
[2] Bruce on Steph in Gotham Knights #37.
[3] And I would feel the same way if she weren't one of my two favourite DC characters.
[4] I mean, just as one example, look at that part in Hush (Batman #612) when he fights against an Ivy-controlled Superman. He says: "Even more than the Kryptonite, he's got one big weakness. Deep down, Clark's essentially a good person... and deep down, I'm not." Mostly I consider that a function of Batman's being a huge "MORE SPECIAL THAN YOU" thirteen-year-old boy, because when has he ever proven to be essentially a bad person, really? But it's a big part of him to try to be hyperaware of his every failing, and those of everyone around him, so he can minimise the problems those flaws could cause. I'm not sure why he's so obsessed with seeing Steph as a normal kid (maybe because she still has a mother? Maybe because she's not as obviously calculating as the rest of them? Maybe because she still seems like she's not just faking her day-life?), but for whatever reason, he doesn't see her as basically broken. Unlike himself, unlike Cass, unlike Dick and Babs and--Tim, even.
[5] Which is very, very important to him! He's sacrificed his normal life in order to keep that dream alive for everyone else. Which is part of why I have trouble believing that he would make Steph Robin in order to get Tim back. (Also: I really, really do not want to believe that Robin 4 was just a play. Steph is so much more Robin to me than Tim has been, and it would make me think even less of Batman if he could do something like that.) If Tim can possibly have a life with his father, who is Bruce to interfere?
[6] Which, really, leads to zero surprise that not only does Steph keep doing it, but she believes she can get back in with Batman if she can only...! He isn't exactly Mister Consistent; just because he tells her to stop this forever tonight doesn't mean that he won't ask to help train her again tomorrow, right?
[7] Aside from "had a vigilante identity before hopping into bed with the bats". Unless that is the problem.
And, OK, it pisses me off that Batman jerks Steph (in particular) around[3]. Because while I get that he might have difficulty working with Huntress because her methods are too extreme, or whatever, Steph is a teenager who hasn't, actually, crossed a line. Steph's strengths clearly don't lie in the detecting side of the family business right now, but she's not bad at the rest of it. If she were given the same basic Bat-training that Tim got, she could possibly be better: she seems way more in tune with her body. Already she's fast, she's flexible, she's tolerably strong, and she's got endurance. And, man, it's not like she can't be taught the rest of it! I've never seen any indication that she wouldn't be able to learn to figure things out. Anyway, I doubt that Dick came out of the circus with Tim's innate knack for information-gathering, but he managed to pick it up well enough. I'd hypothesise--although correct me if I'm way off-base here--that it might have had something to do with Batman's making an effort to teach him, and not just in moments of favour between periods of total lock-out and discouragement.
I'm sure Bruce does have very good intentions in wanting Steph out of the game. He thinks of himself--and, presumably, of all the Gotham vigilantes who have his approval--as damaged and special[4], whereas Steph still has a chance for a normal life[5]; he says that last bit explicitly in War Drums, along with his heaps of regrets about Jason-who-was-so-much-like-Steph. But--ask me how much I think good intentions are actually worth. Also, I really can't put into words just how wrong it is to try to make decisions about Steph based on what Jason might have done, or what he might have done to save Jason. (Would Bruce want Dick and Babs to treat him the way they want to treat Helena? They see personality parallels there!)
Batman, if he deserves to be called a detective, knows that Steph is not going to give up doing what they do. How many times has he tried to get her to quit in the past?[6] Does anyone ever give it up? Bruce fired Dick, and he went off and became Nightwing. Kicking Jason off the team didn't, actually, stop him from wearing the suit--he died wearing it. Tim's out of the game at the time Steph's Robin, but he wasn't fired--he quit. And those are the people Batman gave the suit to. Stephanie was doing the masked vigilante thing before she joined the gang.
It just seems so unforgivably stupid and short-sighted for him to wash his hands of Steph when she becomes difficult, instead of trying even harder to teach her. I mean, even if she couldn't be Robin anymore, he couldn't've kept her on as backup? Have her in the cave once a week for remedial detective skills & reporting in to him whenever she went out alone as Spoiler? I mean, I get that Gotham's big on the theory that if you can't fix someone, you give him a token punishment and then set him free to continue his mistakes in near-unbroken peace, but does that have to apply to every corner of the crime-fighting business?
Really--what is it about Steph and Helena that makes them "unsuited" for the life? How are they not like the Batman-approved vigilantes?[7] What unteachable skills and talents do they lack? And why is Batman such an asshole?
[1] Babs on Helena in Nightwing/Huntress #3; the actual quote is "Huntress isn't like us, Dick". Also: "She's not stable." Er, sure thing, Babs. That makes her totally different from the rest of Gotham's vigilantes, who are each and every one free from Issues and emotional instability! Although she does maybe change her mind in Birds of Prey #84: "I was manipulating you. I convinced myself I was trying to help. I was wrong. It hurts how wrong. ... By the time I knew you--knew what you were really like--I'd already made a mess of things."
[2] Bruce on Steph in Gotham Knights #37.
[3] And I would feel the same way if she weren't one of my two favourite DC characters.
[4] I mean, just as one example, look at that part in Hush (Batman #612) when he fights against an Ivy-controlled Superman. He says: "Even more than the Kryptonite, he's got one big weakness. Deep down, Clark's essentially a good person... and deep down, I'm not." Mostly I consider that a function of Batman's being a huge "MORE SPECIAL THAN YOU" thirteen-year-old boy, because when has he ever proven to be essentially a bad person, really? But it's a big part of him to try to be hyperaware of his every failing, and those of everyone around him, so he can minimise the problems those flaws could cause. I'm not sure why he's so obsessed with seeing Steph as a normal kid (maybe because she still has a mother? Maybe because she's not as obviously calculating as the rest of them? Maybe because she still seems like she's not just faking her day-life?), but for whatever reason, he doesn't see her as basically broken. Unlike himself, unlike Cass, unlike Dick and Babs and--Tim, even.
[5] Which is very, very important to him! He's sacrificed his normal life in order to keep that dream alive for everyone else. Which is part of why I have trouble believing that he would make Steph Robin in order to get Tim back. (Also: I really, really do not want to believe that Robin 4 was just a play. Steph is so much more Robin to me than Tim has been, and it would make me think even less of Batman if he could do something like that.) If Tim can possibly have a life with his father, who is Bruce to interfere?
[6] Which, really, leads to zero surprise that not only does Steph keep doing it, but she believes she can get back in with Batman if she can only...! He isn't exactly Mister Consistent; just because he tells her to stop this forever tonight doesn't mean that he won't ask to help train her again tomorrow, right?
[7] Aside from "had a vigilante identity before hopping into bed with the bats". Unless that is the problem.