Not to inflict further pain on your brain, there, dear Rosie, but I have a couple of questions for you.
First of all, your remark here: I think that's why we call it 'blind faith'. We just have to go along with it. How, on earth, can be reason about it. makes me curious. I think of 'faith' and 'blind faith' as two separate kinds of faith. Do you feel that any faith you have is 'blind'? Have you not had something conclusive to you, even if not 'provable' to someone else that has solidified your faith? I ask that because I've had those kinds of experiences personally, which makes me certain my faith on particular subjects is not 'blind' -- though on others I do have 'blind' faith, at least for a time until the mysteries of God are revealed to me. So I'm just wondering about that.
And railing at God-- OMG, of course. I mean, who hasn't, even of the most faithful? Job, I guess. But most everybody else from the Bible folks to your modern, everyday, regular people have screamed that WHY GOD WHY mantra. Or maybe I'm judging everyone by my own lack of faith, patience, and understanding? If so, I hope all the non-railers will forgive me.
I do love you, let me emphasize LOVE YOU for bringing up what you CHOOSE to believe, because I think this is the crux of all stuff, everywhere, FOREVER. Faith is a feeling, but it's a choice too. There is a common scripture among Mormons that says in content: If you can no more than DESIRE to believe, that is enough to get you started. Nurture that, and it will grow, give as much as you can to God, and he will help make up the difference. But it all begins with a choice.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain you're going to go to a great place when the time comes, and Lea will be there waiting, with open arms. *hugs*
Do you feel that any faith you have is 'blind'? Have you not had something conclusive to you, even if not 'provable' to someone else that has solidified
Yes, I have had quasi-conclusive 'events' that have (kinda) 'proven' that God exists, but they mainly presented as dreams. I've been visited by my sister several times, as have siblings, but we often wonder if that's our brains giving us what we want to have (her, with us) or if it's really her.
Due to the messages I've received from her, I've chosen to believe the latter - that she is in a better place, that there will be reconciliation, that it is indeed 'okay'
Also, Candy, the fact that we see the miracles that happen - the birth of children, the beauty of nature, the divinity of things - this makes my faith less 'blind' perhaps.
I JUST LIKE TO QUANTIFY THINGS, lol. I like to know EXACTLY where heaven is, how long it takes to get there, where exactly the soul goes, why a child died of cancer at age 6, why a child molester gets to live, healthily, into his 80s.
But we don't know. That's the blindness (for me) I guess.
So, I don't have blindness that God and greatness exists, I have blindness as to my infinite questions. I'm also (and have always been) obsessed with my own death. Where, why, how, who, it will happen. It's the only thing we can't google, Candy, and that's why we are blinded to when it will occur.
I like this:
If you can no more than DESIRE to believe, that is enough to get you started. Nurture that, and it will grow, give as much as you can to God, and he will help make up the difference. But it all begins with a choice.
In RC terms (learnt by me when I was about 5 YO) you have to believe or you will have a mark on your soul and go to Hell. End. Of. Story.
I think we once discussed whether I would 'shop around' for a creed to follow, and you know what? I think I have. I listen to elements of religion that provide the positive - that emphasize love and being the best person you can be, and I adopt this.
Because the creator/greatest being/God is just that, whether you're RC, Mormon, Methodist, JW or Islam.
For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain you're going to go to a great place when the time comes, and Lea will be there waiting, with open arms. *hugs*
This is a really lovely thing to say. I pray that happens for us all, but we don't KNOW it for sure, do we? We have faith. That feeling that you describe and thank God for that. *hugs*
I think all things that happen with regard to faith hinge on the aspect of being illogical to some extent. Anything we can logic our way into, we can logic our way out of. Faith being a 'feeling' is both stronger and more lasting than the intellectualism of anything. Dismissing those experiences we have that are both profound and slightly difficult to believe is undoubtedly the crux of the matter, and the difference between someone who believes and someone who doesn't.
Not to oversimplify everything, but that's all I've got on that for now.
As I get older, I do find that I think about death more often, but it's never been a point of concern for me. From a very young age, the things I've been taught about it and where we go when we die, has always been a source of absolute truth for me, and though I don't know for sure as you say, having never been there, I feel as certain of it as I do lots of other places I've never been. Then again, I do think the tenets of my religion are little less fire and brimstone than what yours were growing up. Religion has never been scary for me. Certainly there has been a lot of emphasis on duty, responsibility, obedience, and enduring faithfulness, but I was lucky to learn about it all as a form of love, rather than a compulsion of fear.
Perhaps it's that aspect right there that makes it easier to believe, I don't know.
Candy, hey. I really enjoyed reading this and it lends to what we've been discussing, I think. would like to know what you think if/when you have the time:
Without doubt, life would simply be a series of packaged assumptions, none of them tested, none of them sure, and all of them belonging not to us, but to someone else whose truth we have made our own.
Thanks for that. I agree with that so much--it's interesting to me, but EVERY TIME I engage in a religious discussion with someone, particularly someone who doesn't believe at all, I find myself strengthened, because I have to search more deeply for answers and doctrine that I take for granted sometimes.
The times in my life when I've questioned all of it -- when I've wondered if the way I've chosen to live my life is worth it at all -- those are the times when my prayers are more meaningful, and my study is a hunger rather than just a habit I have. It all becomes so much more, and those are the times when I can say with even more certainty: I know it's true. Not just I 'believe' or I 'hope' but I know. As she said doubt leads to real faith, and faith can move mountains -- figurative and literal.
First of all, your remark here:
I think that's why we call it 'blind faith'. We just have to go along with it. How, on earth, can be reason about it.
makes me curious. I think of 'faith' and 'blind faith' as two separate kinds of faith. Do you feel that any faith you have is 'blind'? Have you not had something conclusive to you, even if not 'provable' to someone else that has solidified your faith? I ask that because I've had those kinds of experiences personally, which makes me certain my faith on particular subjects is not 'blind' -- though on others I do have 'blind' faith, at least for a time until the mysteries of God are revealed to me. So I'm just wondering about that.
And railing at God-- OMG, of course. I mean, who hasn't, even of the most faithful? Job, I guess. But most everybody else from the Bible folks to your modern, everyday, regular people have screamed that WHY GOD WHY mantra. Or maybe I'm judging everyone by my own lack of faith, patience, and understanding? If so, I hope all the non-railers will forgive me.
I do love you, let me emphasize LOVE YOU for bringing up what you CHOOSE to believe, because I think this is the crux of all stuff, everywhere, FOREVER. Faith is a feeling, but it's a choice too. There is a common scripture among Mormons that says in content: If you can no more than DESIRE to believe, that is enough to get you started. Nurture that, and it will grow, give as much as you can to God, and he will help make up the difference. But it all begins with a choice.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain you're going to go to a great place when the time comes, and Lea will be there waiting, with open arms. *hugs*
Reply
Do you feel that any faith you have is 'blind'? Have you not had something conclusive to you, even if not 'provable' to someone else that has solidified
Yes, I have had quasi-conclusive 'events' that have (kinda) 'proven' that God exists, but they mainly presented as dreams. I've been visited by my sister several times, as have siblings, but we often wonder if that's our brains giving us what we want to have (her, with us) or if it's really her.
Due to the messages I've received from her, I've chosen to believe the latter - that she is in a better place, that there will be reconciliation, that it is indeed 'okay'
Also, Candy, the fact that we see the miracles that happen - the birth of children, the beauty of nature, the divinity of things - this makes my faith less 'blind' perhaps.
I JUST LIKE TO QUANTIFY THINGS, lol. I like to know EXACTLY where heaven is, how long it takes to get there, where exactly the soul goes, why a child died of cancer at age 6, why a child molester gets to live, healthily, into his 80s.
But we don't know. That's the blindness (for me) I guess.
So, I don't have blindness that God and greatness exists, I have blindness as to my infinite questions. I'm also (and have always been) obsessed with my own death. Where, why, how, who, it will happen. It's the only thing we can't google, Candy, and that's why we are blinded to when it will occur.
I like this:
If you can no more than DESIRE to believe, that is enough to get you started. Nurture that, and it will grow, give as much as you can to God, and he will help make up the difference. But it all begins with a choice.
In RC terms (learnt by me when I was about 5 YO) you have to believe or you will have a mark on your soul and go to Hell. End. Of. Story.
I think we once discussed whether I would 'shop around' for a creed to follow, and you know what? I think I have. I listen to elements of religion that provide the positive - that emphasize love and being the best person you can be, and I adopt this.
Because the creator/greatest being/God is just that, whether you're RC, Mormon, Methodist, JW or Islam.
For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain you're going to go to a great place when the time comes, and Lea will be there waiting, with open arms. *hugs*
This is a really lovely thing to say. I pray that happens for us all, but we don't KNOW it for sure, do we? We have faith. That feeling that you describe and thank God for that. *hugs*
Reply
Not to oversimplify everything, but that's all I've got on that for now.
As I get older, I do find that I think about death more often, but it's never been a point of concern for me. From a very young age, the things I've been taught about it and where we go when we die, has always been a source of absolute truth for me, and though I don't know for sure as you say, having never been there, I feel as certain of it as I do lots of other places I've never been. Then again, I do think the tenets of my religion are little less fire and brimstone than what yours were growing up. Religion has never been scary for me. Certainly there has been a lot of emphasis on duty, responsibility, obedience, and enduring faithfulness, but I was lucky to learn about it all as a form of love, rather than a compulsion of fear.
Perhaps it's that aspect right there that makes it easier to believe, I don't know.
I'm off to read the link you left.
Reply
From Sr Joan:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sister-joan-chittister-osb/be-grateful-for-doubt_b_750923.html
Without doubt, life would simply be a series of packaged assumptions, none of them tested, none of them sure, and all of them belonging not to us, but to someone else whose truth we have made our own.
Reply
The times in my life when I've questioned all of it -- when I've wondered if the way I've chosen to live my life is worth it at all -- those are the times when my prayers are more meaningful, and my study is a hunger rather than just a habit I have. It all becomes so much more, and those are the times when I can say with even more certainty: I know it's true. Not just I 'believe' or I 'hope' but I know. As she said doubt leads to real faith, and faith can move mountains -- figurative and literal.
Reply
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