Fic: Back - R/L - NC-17 - part 1 of 6

[kahvi]

Title: Back - part 1 of 6
Authors: roadstergal and kahvi
Pairings: Rimmer/Lister
Rating: NC-17, for explicit sex and adult themes. Please note this.
Disclaimer: We do not own them, and we make no money from this. Just a whole lot of fun!
Note: Yes, it's Gestalt-time! This story follows on from, and is based in the same universe as my Heart, and roadstergal's Annoyance and

Comments

Better Late then Never. :)

[typhonblue]

‘"Sir, I need you to go fetch Mr. Lister! Nothing... erm... nothing... dangerous or anything. No. No indeed. I just..." his voice synthesizers put in a slight note of panic, "need you to go get Mr. Lister right now." Perhaps there was still hope. Kryten had to believe that, or he'd go completely to nuts and bolts.’

For some reason changing to Kryten’s PoV really jarred me here.

Also, the scene where Rimmer comes in on Lister taking a shower (or not taking a shower) is confusing.

When we shift from Rimmer noticing Lister to Lister musing to himself, it is confusing. It’s almost like the story goes back in time for a bit, *prior* to Rimmer entering the room.

Shouldn’t Lister notice Rimmer as soon as Rimmer says, "Oh! Er, I...” When I read the paragraph after that I thought Lister had noticed Rimmer and was considering asking Rimmer to help hold his towel up, which would be a strange thing to ask an intimate partner who’d just come back from a long trip.

I think the switching back and forth for the “I haven’t seen the lover I kicked out of my life in ages” meeting and reaction is confusing. Perhaps you should stick to one?

‘Oh, is that what the man wanted to know. Rimmer leaned close, hissing in his own voice, "Yes, it's smegging me."’ I like this. I’m not sure why, but I can absolutely see Rimmer doing it.

‘Moisture fell from his lashes onto his face, irritating his eyes.’If it’s falling from his lashes onto his face, why is it irritating his eyes?

‘"Because... you..." Rimmer sighed and dropped the Ace voice. "Look, this is one of the things I came back to talk about." He had made a list. Damn it, he should have brought the list. It was so neat and orderly! Every thought he had about this topic was laid out in the proper order of discussion, with relevant subheadings for more in-depth discussion. He was so sure he would remember it without the hard copy! But no, Lister had driven it right out of his mind. Maybe he should go back and get the thing.” Hehe. Very nice.

‘"No, no." Rimmer grabbed the subject eagerly. He knew about reality bubbles. They were common across the dimensions - as minefields, as defensive weapons, as offensive weapons, as an interrogation tactic. Rimmer knew his smegging reality bubbles inside-out.” Again, much liking.

‘"Tell me Arn, go on." Lister's voice was dead. "Tell me there's a way to explain this. You were always good at explaining things. Aliens. Tell me it's aliens."’ Hehe, so Arn.

Re: Better Late then Never. :)

[kahvi]

For some reason changing to Kryten's PoV really jarred me here.
Could you elaborate? We tend to switch POVs by paragraph, depending on which character is speaking (or thinking). I know it's hard to pinpoint these things sometimes, but any insight would help. :)

When we shift from Rimmer noticing Lister to Lister musing to himself, it is confusing. It's almost like the story goes back in time for a bit, *prior* to Rimmer entering the room.
Well to be honest, I did this on purpose. You get Lister's thoughts about what has happened up until then - they could have been fitted elsewhere, but I wanted them there to create tension. You see Rimmer entering, and you're curious about what will happen, but you're not gonna get to know that just yet. Duly noted though - it's not supposed to be confusing, of course.

Lister doesn't notice Rimmer because of the siren - he does hear him, but he's concentrating, so it doesn't penetrate until later: There seemed to be a second layer of sound, something underneath all the braying sirens. Truth be told, it sounded awfully familiar. Like... Lister looked up.

I think the switching back and forth for the “I haven’t seen the lover I kicked out of my life in ages” meeting and reaction is confusing. Perhaps you should stick to one?
I'm afraid I didn't understand this. Stick to one what? What is it that is going back and forth?

The water falling from his lashes isn't irritating his eyes; that's the point. It's tears. He doesn't want to admit that to himself though, or he's too emotionally confused to get it. He goes on: But he hadn't had time to lather up yet. Maybe it wasn't soap. There were all sorts of 'maybe's, all of a sudden. Maybe that was a little too subtle.

Thank you for taking the time to do this - concrit is muchly valued!

Re: Better Late then Never. :)

[typhonblue]

I think the shift is jarring because its consistantly Rimmer prior to that.

I know that you usually write third person omnicient and switch between POVs every paragraph. And usually it works, but this time it felt jarring. I think maybe it's because when you do it in other places it's Rimmer reacting to X, then Lister reacting to X, then Kryten, etc. But in this case they're not reacting to the same thing. Plus the fact that the PoV was consistantly Rimmer prior to that so you get used to that, instead of used to the switching.

Perhaps a scene break would help?

Re: Better Late then Never. :)

[kahvi]

Hm. While I understand what you are saying, I have to admit that I just don't see how this scene differs from others we have done. (Unless there are other scenes you think jarred?) We write out the viewpoints of those characters in play. When Rimmer (or Lister for that matter) is alone, it's just them, but when someone else enters, you start hearing their thougths too. Hence, when Kryten comes in, you start to hear his thoughts - which I also put in for foreshadowing purposes. If you have the time and inclination, could you possibly give a concrete example of a spesific shift you find odd? If there is something fixable here, I want to do so, or at least be aware of what it is.

I'm also not entirely sure what you mean by "reacting to the same thing". They are both reacting to the alert and each other, right? Lol, I feel dim here. Maybe we're talking at cross-purposes?

I was thinking that maybe some of the paragraphs were a little too short - I always try for a balance there, but it's hard. Could that be part of it?

Re: Better Late then Never. :)

[typhonblue]

No, the other scenes don't jar. That's what's odd about this one.

Like I said, I think part of it is just having large passages of one PoV then switching to another when _that_ person enters the scene. You get used to following around in one head and then *bam* you're in another. That sense of displacement doesn't happen when you get used to switching each paragraph.

And it's not quite an "in play" situation, because the unseen narrator has made the choice to follow Rimmer instead of Lister (when they're not in the same visible area). When Lister then comes in, the reader is still seeing Rimmer as the more important(or revealing) PoV, because the narrator has suggested this is so by choosing to follow him instead of Lister.

It's sort of a complicated thing to explain. :\ I'm sorry if it isn't making sense.

Re: Better Late then Never. :)

[typhonblue]

Sorry. That was me. I logged in on my account at school and forgot to log in as typhon.

Re: Better Late then Never. :)

[kahvi]

Thank you for taking the time to explain further. It's a little bit clearer to me now. :)

I will take a further look at it.

Re: Better Late then Never. :)

[typhonblue]

If it isn't too presumptuous, I'll make a suggestion.

Put a scene break after Rimmer notices Lister, then in the next scene write Lister's train of thought until he notices Rimmer, then return to alternating the two.

I edited your original version to reflect this suggestion, if you're interested in seeing it. :)

BTW, did you e-mail me a crit? My server has been eating my e-mail randomly lately so I don't know if it got through.

Re: Better Late then Never. :)

[kahvi]

I don't mean to sound unapreciative, but as roadstergal said, we did make this editing choice conciously, and I would prefer to keep it that way. Your comments are apreciated, and we will keep them in mind for future fics however, so thanks!

Re: Better Late then Never. :)

[typhonblue]

No, you can take the crit or leave it. That's the nature of crit.

I reworked it in order to figure out what was bothering me so I could explain.

Re: Better Late then Never. :)

[roadstergal]

I see what you're saying, and I can see the structure you suggested working with a different style. But we made the conscious choice to plot it as we did, and you touched on why - we're following Rimmer into this confusing situation, and we stay with him to get to Lister.

In a lot of ways, the two main characters are not themselves when they're alone, and we wanted to touch on that a bit with this - coming into Rimmer's mind when he makes the decision to return to Lister, and then coming into Lister's mind once Rimmer re-enters his life (even though it's not quite on a conscious level at first).

Er, Kat can correct if I bolloxed that up in talking.