Arguments, Trans-issues, and Evil Senators...
Earlier, I was discussing with a friend about Massachusetts finally signing a bill to protect transgendered people from discrimination (which happened in Nov) and the recent disgusting words by a Tennessee senator here in which he threatened violence toward transfolks...
I brought it up later with someone else and ended up getting in quite a long, angry fight. Ugh. Seriously.
The fight started after I commented on this senator's disgusting words. The person I was talking to...let's call her Jan. Jan was all...well, I wouldn't be comfortable either. This led to an invariable "why?" from me...a "why does someone else's genitals matter to you in the slightest?" and a further, yeah, but "why do you care?" and somehow ended in the area where it always goes when discussing transfolk...the whole what if you went out with someone who presented as female and when you went to have sex, she had a penis! OH THE HORRORS. Ugh. I am. SO TIRED. of hearing about this hypothetical situation. Why? Because I think that whatever your reaction is, violent or murderous shouldn't be one of them. Ever. So she has a penis. Big. Fucking. Deal. I don't care. I don't see why people think murder or violence is an acceptable reaction to such a situation. It isn't. It never will be.
Jan says to me...it must be shocking...I don't condone violence, but it's understandable.
Me: No. It isn't understandable. It's wrong. It's horrific. The moment you think it's understandable, that's reasonable doubt. That's an acquittal. That's justification. There is none. Never will be.
(And then Jan brings up the whole 'red-blooded American male' thing. How 'he' would feel? And I think the 'red-blooded American male' doesn't need a pass on bad behaviour anymore. Same argument's been presented time and time again for cis-men. Her skirt was so short, her shirt was low-cut, person was passed out, etc etc... Excuse after excuse for bad behaviour, blaming the victims instead. I'm tired of Manpologists telling me to think of how they must feel in certain situations. I don't care what they feel like. I don't care one fucking whit. Grow up.
If you want to perpetuate violence on some poor schmuck who doesn't deserve it, go play Hockey.
Maybe it's because my sexuality is truly gender and sex irrelevant. I don't care what's in your shorts at all. I care about your brain. But to me? It's unconscionable that anyone can see the justification or understand the reaction. I don't.
And it brings me back to why? Why does it matter so much? Why do people care so much? Why does it bother people so much? Because when I asked and asked and asked this question, I never get a good answer. Never.
Same thing when people discuss why they don't agree with gay rights. Or gay marriage. Or polygamy. Or anything.
The only thing people continually will go back to is the bible. And bringing the bible into any discussion of rights of any kind is a one-way ticket to make me lean towards disregarding your point of view. Every religious argument against anything at all can be countered with: When did you last give a burnt offering/sacrifice a goat/give your neighbor a ram?
If the answer is never, your argument, in my mind, is invalid. There's a handful of references (if I remember correctly) to homosexuality. None to transgendered folk. Again if I recall correctly.
There are tons of times when you should be giving burnt offerings. Any time you menstruate and sit in a chair. It gets quite detailed. So, if you can choose to disregard purification rituals of menstruation or eat fruit from a tree under five years old or whatever, you can just as easily disregard the passage about homosexuality.
Plus, I get tired of people using a Book, whose primary messages are "be good", "be nice", and "let me deal with it, folks" to justify their irrational hatred and disturbing acts of violence on/of others.
When people take religion out of the conversation, and I ask the same questions: why do you care what other people do? why do you care if they're gay? why do you care if they marry? why do you care if they're trans and didn't think to tell you the 'truth' because it's none of your goddamned business? You never get a good answer.
It all comes down to the same bullshit: they don't like it. Because. They don't. Because it makes them uncomfortable.
Well, whoopee. Your comfort is important when it comes to their identity?
So, I tell Jan: That's not a good enough reason. As a matter of fact, it's a shitty reason. It doesn't affect you in any way at all.
The argument furthered devolved into the crappy debate over perception and whether it's "lying" and shit. And then Jan gave me the whole "I'm entitled to how I feel about it."
And I kinda lost my temper. And basically said, I hate the way you talk about this, think about this, feel about this. And I think you're wrong. And I think the way you think is dangerous and feeds into a society that allows an unconscionable percentage of transfolk to be the victims of murder and violence and harassment in all spheres of life.
Especially, since my personal feelings run along that it should be celebrated. Someone is finally able to transition, take steps to being whole and happy? It's a good thing.
Finally, I just said: let's just not talk about this anymore.
And that's where we left it. Me in a strop. Her hideously and decidedly wrong.
In advance, I apologise if my post is incoherent.
edited to clarify" my issue is not with devout people who follow a non-violent, but faithful religious point of view counter to my own. my problem is people who pick one line out Leviticus to justify being an asshole.
I brought it up later with someone else and ended up getting in quite a long, angry fight. Ugh. Seriously.
The fight started after I commented on this senator's disgusting words. The person I was talking to...let's call her Jan. Jan was all...well, I wouldn't be comfortable either. This led to an invariable "why?" from me...a "why does someone else's genitals matter to you in the slightest?" and a further, yeah, but "why do you care?" and somehow ended in the area where it always goes when discussing transfolk...the whole what if you went out with someone who presented as female and when you went to have sex, she had a penis! OH THE HORRORS. Ugh. I am. SO TIRED. of hearing about this hypothetical situation. Why? Because I think that whatever your reaction is, violent or murderous shouldn't be one of them. Ever. So she has a penis. Big. Fucking. Deal. I don't care. I don't see why people think murder or violence is an acceptable reaction to such a situation. It isn't. It never will be.
Jan says to me...it must be shocking...I don't condone violence, but it's understandable.
Me: No. It isn't understandable. It's wrong. It's horrific. The moment you think it's understandable, that's reasonable doubt. That's an acquittal. That's justification. There is none. Never will be.
(And then Jan brings up the whole 'red-blooded American male' thing. How 'he' would feel? And I think the 'red-blooded American male' doesn't need a pass on bad behaviour anymore. Same argument's been presented time and time again for cis-men. Her skirt was so short, her shirt was low-cut, person was passed out, etc etc... Excuse after excuse for bad behaviour, blaming the victims instead. I'm tired of Manpologists telling me to think of how they must feel in certain situations. I don't care what they feel like. I don't care one fucking whit. Grow up.
If you want to perpetuate violence on some poor schmuck who doesn't deserve it, go play Hockey.
Maybe it's because my sexuality is truly gender and sex irrelevant. I don't care what's in your shorts at all. I care about your brain. But to me? It's unconscionable that anyone can see the justification or understand the reaction. I don't.
And it brings me back to why? Why does it matter so much? Why do people care so much? Why does it bother people so much? Because when I asked and asked and asked this question, I never get a good answer. Never.
Same thing when people discuss why they don't agree with gay rights. Or gay marriage. Or polygamy. Or anything.
The only thing people continually will go back to is the bible. And bringing the bible into any discussion of rights of any kind is a one-way ticket to make me lean towards disregarding your point of view. Every religious argument against anything at all can be countered with: When did you last give a burnt offering/sacrifice a goat/give your neighbor a ram?
If the answer is never, your argument, in my mind, is invalid. There's a handful of references (if I remember correctly) to homosexuality. None to transgendered folk. Again if I recall correctly.
There are tons of times when you should be giving burnt offerings. Any time you menstruate and sit in a chair. It gets quite detailed. So, if you can choose to disregard purification rituals of menstruation or eat fruit from a tree under five years old or whatever, you can just as easily disregard the passage about homosexuality.
Plus, I get tired of people using a Book, whose primary messages are "be good", "be nice", and "let me deal with it, folks" to justify their irrational hatred and disturbing acts of violence on/of others.
When people take religion out of the conversation, and I ask the same questions: why do you care what other people do? why do you care if they're gay? why do you care if they marry? why do you care if they're trans and didn't think to tell you the 'truth' because it's none of your goddamned business? You never get a good answer.
It all comes down to the same bullshit: they don't like it. Because. They don't. Because it makes them uncomfortable.
Well, whoopee. Your comfort is important when it comes to their identity?
So, I tell Jan: That's not a good enough reason. As a matter of fact, it's a shitty reason. It doesn't affect you in any way at all.
The argument furthered devolved into the crappy debate over perception and whether it's "lying" and shit. And then Jan gave me the whole "I'm entitled to how I feel about it."
And I kinda lost my temper. And basically said, I hate the way you talk about this, think about this, feel about this. And I think you're wrong. And I think the way you think is dangerous and feeds into a society that allows an unconscionable percentage of transfolk to be the victims of murder and violence and harassment in all spheres of life.
Especially, since my personal feelings run along that it should be celebrated. Someone is finally able to transition, take steps to being whole and happy? It's a good thing.
Finally, I just said: let's just not talk about this anymore.
And that's where we left it. Me in a strop. Her hideously and decidedly wrong.
In advance, I apologise if my post is incoherent.
edited to clarify" my issue is not with devout people who follow a non-violent, but faithful religious point of view counter to my own. my problem is people who pick one line out Leviticus to justify being an asshole.