Quick quick now!
1) The deadline is tomorrow, Friday the 20th at midnight for both otherworldlyric challenge #166 , "Easy Way Out" by Gotye, and slayerstillness challenge 20 "Love Song for a Vampire. More entries are needed - and I'm sitting both of these out, so don't look at me. I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy the pretties this time around
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Oh, I didn't mean to suggest you disagreed. I knew you did, because you said so. I actually didn't know there was a fandom divide between shippers and not-shippers that people talked about; usually when I do see something that dismisses shipping, it's either dismissing a specific faction or equating shipping with the entirety of online fandom. I didn't think you were doing that.
And yes, that's pretty much the thing. All the factions I've been in or even just visited have the same ways of being terrible. There's one in another fandom of mine with the distinction of calling its shipping more feminist and progressive because they ship an f/f pairing between two main female characters, but I've been in it since the beginning and it's actually not any better than the others in practice. Woe is the multi-shipper! Woe is anyone who doesn't put a ship first! (Unless they put a male character first. Then it's okay sometimes.)
I derived the name from this one, which is in reference to the tigerlily. It's featured in a story I've forgotten everything about, except there was a girl receiving her grandfather's reassurance that being different didn't make her less beautiful and interesting. I've also loved snowdrops ever since they featured in a chapter of Saint Tail, a childhood manga favorite about a sort of Robin Hood schoolgirl. So I wanted to keep with the childhood flower thing but not use the same name as before.
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It is? Now I really don't know what to say!
Oh, I didn't mean to suggest you disagreed.
Actually I was speaking broadly - or somesuch - I didn't think you thought I disagreed. (Got it? There will be a quiz later....*lol*) When I quoted you I was just focused on your comments and not the context of whatever was going on around it, of which I was and am pretty ignorant to be honest, although this discussion (and eilowyn's post repeating her comments at the top, and the discussion following that) have been very interesting and...educational.
There's one in another fandom of mine with the distinction of calling its shipping more feminist and progressive because they ship an f/f pairing between two main female characters, but I've been in it since the beginning and it's actually not any better than the others in practice.
The fallacy that that lesbianism is naturally more "feminist" than heterosexuality makes sense in the context of the 1970's when lesbians were still fighting to be out and accepted in the mainstream feminist organizations, and had to assert legitimacy. But it's just a variation on biological superiority - that women are kinder, gentler, more nuturing; that they will make politics less cutthroat, etc etc.
We know better now - don't we?
Woe is the multi-shipper!
I was having a conversation with velvetwhip a while back trying to come up with a name for "what I am now" in terms of fandom shipping, and "multishipper" was probably the best we came up with. Thanks to fandom shipping, I'm no longer monogamous in my shipping practices! And I don't just mean in a negative way - fan writers turned me on to pairings I wouldn't have come up with on my own (Faith/Willow, Willow/Angel, etc) and that's delightful IMO. It makes the fandom experience richer for me.
But the whole who did Buffy love most game? OVER IT.
At this point I almost hesitate to call myself a Spuffy shipper because the label seems to be accompanied by a certain set of assumptions that I don't believe and can't sign up for, that I don't want to be associated with. And yet I do ship them in S7 for my own reasons, and want to be able to celebrate what I love about them then.
Woe is anyone who doesn't put a ship first! (Unless they put a male character first. Then it's okay sometimes.)
This doesn not surprise me. And I know (from looking at your fic list) that you are/have been part of a variety of fandoms; which only reinforces the fact that it's a wider cultural phenomenon.
which is in reference to the tigerlily. It's featured in a story I've forgotten everything about, except there was a girl receiving her grandfather's reassurance that being different didn't make her less beautiful and interesting.
That sounds somewhat familiar - and as it happens, tigerlilies are another of my favorites! They grow wild along the roads in parts of North carolina, and when we were first dating my sweetie would pick bunches of them and bring them home for me.
I'm not at all familiar with manga (am I the last person on earth?) but it sounds interesting - should I check out Saint Tail?
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Actually I was speaking broadly - or somesuch - I didn't think you thought I disagreed. (Got it? There will be a quiz later....*lol*)
Aha! My brain twisted down the wrong path then. I get it now.
But it's just a variation on biological superiority - that women are kinder, gentler, more nuturing; that they will make politics less cutthroat, etc etc.
We know better now - don't we?
Yeah. I have no idea why I was so conflicted about some of the things going on that fandom--I already knew that claiming something was done with feminist intent didn't make it unproblematic, to say the least, and I'd seen a similar thing when I was into reading Buffy/Faith, where often one of the female characters was bashed to prop up the other. But I spent a lot of my time in that section at first and I kept wondering why I wasn't wholly agreeing with how some opinions were held up as feminist and correct.
It makes the fandom experience richer for me.
This! Yes, I like multishipping because it allows me to explore different possibilities and dynamics. I don't think I've had an OTP in a long time, even when there are pairings I love more than others. Thinking about it in terms of who is best/who Buffy loves more can be so reductive--and prescriptive, for that matter, in that it tends to come with scolding Buffy for not making the 'right' choice.
want to be able to celebrate what I love about them then.
This is a fandom dilemma for me. I feel weird talking about or showing any celebration of ships that I love unless they're really tiny, because of all the connotations they have within fandom among people who ship them and people who don't. And I don't want to give more focus to something that already takes up a good deal of online space, and that some people who might look at me are really tired of. I get tired of it and want to look at something different sometimes too! But sometimes I want to squee and say why I like the thing!
which only reinforces the fact that it's a wider cultural phenomenon.
Yes, I haven't escaped yet. I've been in fandoms for anime, books movies, and tv shows; the things I see now remind me of what I was seeing 10+ years ago. Except there's more contact between the fans and the people behind the scenes of shows, I guess, and so probably more harassment from the fans about their ships. I found some of that in the last few months.
That's a lovely story about the tigerlilies!
I loved Saint Tail and it's incredibly cute! She recovers things that are stolen, but the police think she's a thief, and there's a boy who makes it his mission to catch her, a nun best friend who helps her on her cases, and a hedgehog sidekick! But it's out of print and the company that brought it to the US closed. I'm lucky enough to have all their releases; I can't find any scanlations that go past chapter 9. The anime can be found streamed online--illegally--but I never watched it, though I heard it was good. I think the snowdrop plot was episode 24 if the anime was faithful, because I remember it had to do with a secret perfume and Wikipedia says there is a perfume case in that episode.
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