Thanks so much hon for stopping by! Have you read my Buffy & Tara meta yet from the other day? I'm really very pleased with the response it's gotten. fray_adjacent even created some new female centric icons like the "Family" one I'm using right now. there are fans interested in the ladies, it's just so easy to fall into the same old riffs (ie Buffy & Spike, etc) Even I'm guilty of it.
I just scrolled down to the comments and I see YOU commenting on that fic. OF COURSE.
The funny thing is I'd forgotten that until just now - it was almost a year ago that I commented. (And I was the only person to comment - which proves my POINT! This cannot stand.) But I had forgotten about it, isn't that awful? I should do a Buffy & Tara rec list. It's hard ruuger asked for some recs on the subject a few months back and I didn't have much to offer. On AO3 when i put in Buffy/Tara I got 25 fics the other day. Put them in as individual characters and you get all the thousands of fics that happen to have both of them listed but don't necessary have them interacting with each other. I love the balance of the two of them.
And I'm puzzled - "Tara and Spike" or "Tara/Spike" shows up a lot more in fandom. Which sort of confirms for me the fact that a lot of people don't like Buffy, but also I think that people see Tara as being more traditionally feminine, "nicer" and therefore a more appropriate partner for Spike? But "niceness" has a cost. If any one of the ladies in the verse - as in real life - swallow their anger, surpress it, they're "closed off", they're not feminine enough, If they express their anger they're told they don't have a right to be angry, that they're not feminine enough.
I actually have a first (very rough) draft of a B/T fic, which I promised laynoyee first glance at, as she inspired it in our conversations. If you haven't visited her LJ or tumblr, please do; she's wonderful to talk and brainstorm with re: Buffy, Dawn, Tara etc.
I didn't plan to link to your meta so often here but it just sort of happened? (I had really meant to do a little birthday gift for you weeks ago and - didn't. My bad. The image of Buffy & Tara from OAFA I used the other day was originally supposed to be for you. *gulp*) Your meta on Buffy and depression has been on my mind a LOT lately, and I've reread it several times because it really resonates with me very strongly, but also I find myself coming up against the same sorts of things that inspired you to write it in the first place. I always wonder, do I have the same sort of courage Emmie had? Am I ready to fight for Buffy, and in doing so fight for all of us who love and identify with her? I hope so, but I doubt myself a lot.
Coincidentally, I finally read your essay on Berthe Morisot; I love (feminist) art history but I hadn't taken the time before, I think because I was seeing that painting as rather ordinary "image of a woman at her toilette" that the male artists of the day so loved to do. I hadn't ever taken the time to deconstruct it as you have. I'll have to post my thoughts over there when I've got a better hold of them in my head.
(Wow, this post has now led to me looking into old meta posts and comments on my friends journals from, like, 2010.)
I'm always commenting on old posts and old fanfics. I think of the internet as the biggest library in the world.
I haven't read it yet, alas! I've been a bit mentally exhausted, but it's on my list, it just my take me awhile. :)
The funny thing is I'd forgotten that until just now - it was almost a year ago that I commented. (And I was the only person to comment - which proves my POINT! This cannot stand.)
Thankfully, Jamie got loads of comments from the Bechdel Comment Ficathon where it was originally posted. And that's actually her first fic she'd ever written (and I remember tempting her into giving this a go? So part of me wants to TAKE CREDIT lol but no she's brilliant), so she might not have been on folks' radars yet. But still, it's glorious and more people should read it.
And I'm puzzled - "Tara and Spike" or "Tara/Spike" shows up a lot more in fandom
You know what, tho? I imagine that's because Tara and Spike were the partners on the receiving end of abuse (at least, if one fails to recognize how equally bad Buffy and Spike were to each other). So I imagine it's very much 'these two deserve better and they deserve better together'. I think it probably is more about the traditionally feminine too inasmuch as Tara's more open emotionally and very emotionally supportive (I think she views this as her function, what she has to offer). Sigh.
I didn't plan to link to your meta so often here but it just sort of happened?
Aw that requires no apology. It's very flattering! And thank you for thinking of me on my birthday. No worries about prezzies. <3
I think when it comes to writing, that honesty and openness can be a hard place to reach, but that it's a courage found through surrender and acceptance. Looking back, part of the reason I was able to write that when I did was because I felt I'd turned a corner in my life. Climbing back to my feet. And writing that was a part of standing again. And perhaps the most shocking turn was that as I waited for the first comments to my essay, worrying that people would be uncomfortable or look at me in a negative light, instead I found an immense solidarity and meeting of minds and hearts. My being open brought others to be open. When I go back to read those comments, it still gets to me -- there's a powerful and moving intimacy captured there.
I hope you do find your time and place to write. I'm in your corner looking forward to reading it, of course.
Coincidentally, I finally read your essay on Berthe Morisot; I love (feminist) art history but I hadn't taken the time before, I think because I was seeing that painting as rather ordinary "image of a woman at her toilette" that the male artists of the day so loved to do. I hadn't ever taken the time to deconstruct it as you have. I'll have to post my thoughts over there when I've got a better hold of them in my head.
OH. See, I cannot get enough of this subject! Please throw your thoughts and feels my way, if you're so inspired. I'm an eager audience. :D
INTERNET LIBRARY. BEST. It's a bit like discovering boxes and boxes of old letters between friends, isn't it?
I imagine that's because Tara and Spike were the partners on the receiving end of abuse (at least, if one fails to recognize how equally bad Buffy and Spike were to each other).
Oh and THAT just puzzles me to no end. W/T does not = B/S, although the relationships are paralle, they are not the exact same power dynamic. I said a while back on one of my earlier metas that I thought the B/S relationship was mutually abusive (but they are both consenting participants in a very unhealthy dynamic); while Willow/Tara are coded as being somewhat more similar to the common cultural conception of abusive relationships: the stronger abuser/weaker victim scenario. (Which is true in many instances but is not the whole truth.)
I got in a lot of trouble and had to backtrack a bit, but I still believe it's true. What's done to Tara is done behind her back, and we're told that Willow is more powerful (stronger) in her magicks. I think at the time the other person thought I was dissing Willow, which I wasn't. I understand and on some level sympathize with all of them; I've been on both sides of the equation (quadrangle?)
I also thought that depicting a lesbian relationship in which abuse occurs was very brave at the time and have gotten in trouble for saying that as well. but it's the dirty little secret - I was shocked 20 years ago when a friend told me she was raped by another woman because I had no idea women (much less lesbians) were capable of such things. I still believed the idealized version.
Looking back, part of the reason I was able to write that when I did was because I felt I'd turned a corner in my life. Climbing back to my feet. And writing that was a part of standing again. And perhaps the most shocking turn was that as I waited for the first comments to my essay, worrying that people would be uncomfortable or look at me in a negative light, instead I found an immense solidarity and meeting of minds and hearts. My being open brought others to be open.
YES. This is very much what I've experienced, it's just having the courage to take that first step (or in my case, taking first steps, getting bit in the ass - or at least bruised - withdrawing, until the isolation is unbearable and I take another step out. If that makes sense?) Today I was talking to fray_adjacent12 and rec'ing your essay alongside Allie's Brosh's "Depression Pt 2" on Hyperbole and a Half. Have you read it? Superb and funny description of depression and she nails it to a T.
I've wondered, rereading your essay (and it's companion piece on depression and creativity), how things have gone since then in terms of your depression; has it been a case of a corner permanently turned, or revisited now and then? In my own case, I have a hard time remembering "this too shall pass" when I'm either up or down, although I can very easily remind others of the same.
I'm in your corner looking forward to reading it, of course.
*hugs* that means a lot to me, thank you.
It's a bit like discovering boxes and boxes of old letters between friends, isn't it?
Yes, exactly! I've always had a love for old books, letters, documents, bits and pieces that bear the marks of lives lived before my time that I can only guess at.
I just scrolled down to the comments and I see YOU commenting on that fic. OF COURSE.
The funny thing is I'd forgotten that until just now - it was almost a year ago that I commented. (And I was the only person to comment - which proves my POINT! This cannot stand.) But I had forgotten about it, isn't that awful? I should do a Buffy & Tara rec list. It's hard ruuger asked for some recs on the subject a few months back and I didn't have much to offer. On AO3 when i put in Buffy/Tara I got 25 fics the other day. Put them in as individual characters and you get all the thousands of fics that happen to have both of them listed but don't necessary have them interacting with each other. I love the balance of the two of them.
And I'm puzzled - "Tara and Spike" or "Tara/Spike" shows up a lot more in fandom. Which sort of confirms for me the fact that a lot of people don't like Buffy, but also I think that people see Tara as being more traditionally feminine, "nicer" and therefore a more appropriate partner for Spike? But "niceness" has a cost. If any one of the ladies in the verse - as in real life - swallow their anger, surpress it, they're "closed off", they're not feminine enough, If they express their anger they're told they don't have a right to be angry, that they're not feminine enough.
I actually have a first (very rough) draft of a B/T fic, which I promised laynoyee first glance at, as she inspired it in our conversations. If you haven't visited her LJ or tumblr, please do; she's wonderful to talk and brainstorm with re: Buffy, Dawn, Tara etc.
I didn't plan to link to your meta so often here but it just sort of happened? (I had really meant to do a little birthday gift for you weeks ago and - didn't. My bad. The image of Buffy & Tara from OAFA I used the other day was originally supposed to be for you. *gulp*) Your meta on Buffy and depression has been on my mind a LOT lately, and I've reread it several times because it really resonates with me very strongly, but also I find myself coming up against the same sorts of things that inspired you to write it in the first place. I always wonder, do I have the same sort of courage Emmie had? Am I ready to fight for Buffy, and in doing so fight for all of us who love and identify with her? I hope so, but I doubt myself a lot.
Coincidentally, I finally read your essay on Berthe Morisot; I love (feminist) art history but I hadn't taken the time before, I think because I was seeing that painting as rather ordinary "image of a woman at her toilette" that the male artists of the day so loved to do. I hadn't ever taken the time to deconstruct it as you have. I'll have to post my thoughts over there when I've got a better hold of them in my head.
(Wow, this post has now led to me looking into old meta posts and comments on my friends journals from, like, 2010.)
I'm always commenting on old posts and old fanfics. I think of the internet as the biggest library in the world.
Reply
The funny thing is I'd forgotten that until just now - it was almost a year ago that I commented. (And I was the only person to comment - which proves my POINT! This cannot stand.)
Thankfully, Jamie got loads of comments from the Bechdel Comment Ficathon where it was originally posted. And that's actually her first fic she'd ever written (and I remember tempting her into giving this a go? So part of me wants to TAKE CREDIT lol but no she's brilliant), so she might not have been on folks' radars yet. But still, it's glorious and more people should read it.
And I'm puzzled - "Tara and Spike" or "Tara/Spike" shows up a lot more in fandom
You know what, tho? I imagine that's because Tara and Spike were the partners on the receiving end of abuse (at least, if one fails to recognize how equally bad Buffy and Spike were to each other). So I imagine it's very much 'these two deserve better and they deserve better together'. I think it probably is more about the traditionally feminine too inasmuch as Tara's more open emotionally and very emotionally supportive (I think she views this as her function, what she has to offer). Sigh.
I didn't plan to link to your meta so often here but it just sort of happened?
Aw that requires no apology. It's very flattering! And thank you for thinking of me on my birthday. No worries about prezzies. <3
I think when it comes to writing, that honesty and openness can be a hard place to reach, but that it's a courage found through surrender and acceptance. Looking back, part of the reason I was able to write that when I did was because I felt I'd turned a corner in my life. Climbing back to my feet. And writing that was a part of standing again. And perhaps the most shocking turn was that as I waited for the first comments to my essay, worrying that people would be uncomfortable or look at me in a negative light, instead I found an immense solidarity and meeting of minds and hearts. My being open brought others to be open. When I go back to read those comments, it still gets to me -- there's a powerful and moving intimacy captured there.
I hope you do find your time and place to write. I'm in your corner looking forward to reading it, of course.
Coincidentally, I finally read your essay on Berthe Morisot; I love (feminist) art history but I hadn't taken the time before, I think because I was seeing that painting as rather ordinary "image of a woman at her toilette" that the male artists of the day so loved to do. I hadn't ever taken the time to deconstruct it as you have. I'll have to post my thoughts over there when I've got a better hold of them in my head.
OH. See, I cannot get enough of this subject! Please throw your thoughts and feels my way, if you're so inspired. I'm an eager audience. :D
INTERNET LIBRARY. BEST. It's a bit like discovering boxes and boxes of old letters between friends, isn't it?
Reply
Oh and THAT just puzzles me to no end. W/T does not = B/S, although the relationships are paralle, they are not the exact same power dynamic. I said a while back on one of my earlier metas that I thought the B/S relationship was mutually abusive (but they are both consenting participants in a very unhealthy dynamic); while Willow/Tara are coded as being somewhat more similar to the common cultural conception of abusive relationships: the stronger abuser/weaker victim scenario. (Which is true in many instances but is not the whole truth.)
I got in a lot of trouble and had to backtrack a bit, but I still believe it's true. What's done to Tara is done behind her back, and we're told that Willow is more powerful (stronger) in her magicks. I think at the time the other person thought I was dissing Willow, which I wasn't. I understand and on some level sympathize with all of them; I've been on both sides of the equation (quadrangle?)
I also thought that depicting a lesbian relationship in which abuse occurs was very brave at the time and have gotten in trouble for saying that as well. but it's the dirty little secret - I was shocked 20 years ago when a friend told me she was raped by another woman because I had no idea women (much less lesbians) were capable of such things. I still believed the idealized version.
Sorry, that was a tangent, wasn't it?
BTW, I've been having some interesting conversations with spuffy_luvr and eilowyn about Spike/Tara shipping. It's a subject I've been afraid to broach but am finally drawing up the courage to tackle, because it's connected to larger issues re: sexual orientation and the ways we categorize relationships and sexuality in fandom and culturally.
http://red-satin-doll.livejournal.com/17902.html?thread=378094#t378094
http://red-satin-doll.livejournal.com/18670.html?view=411374#t411374
Looking back, part of the reason I was able to write that when I did was because I felt I'd turned a corner in my life. Climbing back to my feet. And writing that was a part of standing again. And perhaps the most shocking turn was that as I waited for the first comments to my essay, worrying that people would be uncomfortable or look at me in a negative light, instead I found an immense solidarity and meeting of minds and hearts. My being open brought others to be open.
YES. This is very much what I've experienced, it's just having the courage to take that first step (or in my case, taking first steps, getting bit in the ass - or at least bruised - withdrawing, until the isolation is unbearable and I take another step out. If that makes sense?) Today I was talking to fray_adjacent12 and rec'ing your essay alongside Allie's Brosh's "Depression Pt 2" on Hyperbole and a Half. Have you read it? Superb and funny description of depression and she nails it to a T.
I've wondered, rereading your essay (and it's companion piece on depression and creativity), how things have gone since then in terms of your depression; has it been a case of a corner permanently turned, or revisited now and then? In my own case, I have a hard time remembering "this too shall pass" when I'm either up or down, although I can very easily remind others of the same.
I'm in your corner looking forward to reading it, of course.
*hugs* that means a lot to me, thank you.
It's a bit like discovering boxes and boxes of old letters between friends, isn't it?
Yes, exactly! I've always had a love for old books, letters, documents, bits and pieces that bear the marks of lives lived before my time that I can only guess at.
Reply
Leave a comment