Toon thoughts
Watched "Mask of the Phantasm" and "Subzero" last week. Been thinking. (Am bored at work.)
The plot of "Mask of the Phantasm" was a bit of a yawner... I'd seen it when I was younger so I knew The Twist, and otherwise... generic love interest never seen before or since, blah, blah, blah. Whatever.
What *did* interest me was the scene where Bruce is in front of his parents' grave, asking, essentially, for them to release him from the vow he made to avenge their deaths. Bruce doesn't think they will- he *begs* them to release him. And... the implication is that they *don't*. (Or something doesn't, anyway.)
And that's... kind of fucked up. Really. I mean, he was *nine* when he made that promise. *Nine*.
But more than that, who actually thinks their parents would rather have them sacrifice pretty much *everything* to fight an unwinnable battle, instead of living a happy life with a person they love? (Assuming Bruce would be content to do so, which I doubt. But later for that.) This, to me, indicates that all wasn't quite right in the Wayne household. Now, from what I've seen, we have even less information on toon!Bruce's family than comic!Bruce's- the only episode I recall seeing them in is "The Gray Ghost", where Bruce's father carries him up to bed. (Haven't watched all of Gotham Knights yet, haven't read any of the toon tie-in comics.) So this is kind of all I've got to extrapolate from. How much of it is that Bruce's parents were a bit off, and how much it is that Bruce is projecting... who knows.
But of course, it makes more sense to me that there was *something* about Bruce's homelife. His obsession with his parents' death- and how much of his obsession *is* about his parents' death, on which I waver- is something that fascinates me in all his incarnations. I just can't look at this man who some *seventy* years later has, arguably, *still* not moved on and think that, sure, this guy had a totally normal life before then. I don't think they were necessarily abusive- nothing quite so clear cut. But it does seem that Bruce has the assumption that they expect an inhuman amount from him.
On the other hand, most people who lost their parents don't see them murdered in front of them. So. There is that. Still, I think the idea that they wouldn't forgive him for moving on is... disturbing. And by far the most interesting thing about the movie.
I can't really buy that Bruce would be happy settling down with Andrea in any case. Taking the movie as a separate entity, there isn't a lot of support for that based on Bruce's character- they seem genuinely happy together. But taking the Bruce that I know from the rest of the series... nah. They'd be happy for a little while, and then Bruce would get broody and frightening.
But then, I really really really hate the whole notion of the heterosexual romance that 'saves' the hero and makes everything better. Because Twu Wove (between a Man and a Woman) conquers all, doncha know? But that's a rant for another day.
(As an aside, one of the things I've often wanted to explore, if I can ever find my writing mojo again, is what Bruce would be like if he weren't Batman. Not if his parents hadn't died, but if the bat hadn't ccrashed his window, or he inhabited a world where dressing up in spandex to fight crime *wasn't* considered a viable career choice. I have the idea that in some ways, without that outlet, he'd be a lot scarier than he currently is.)
On the other hand, I can take some support from the scene in front of the grave and the scene with the bats, which seems to be saying that even if Bruce really *does* want to quit, tough luck. There's something there that holds him, whether he will or no. Which ties in to other theories I have about Gotham, and the Bat (as separate, sort of, from Batman- the "Big Scary Batgod," if you will) and the spirits of cities. Which is another post for another time, when I have more evidence.
Will probably come back to Subzero at some point to look at the Dick/Babs relationship. Because... woo, Gotham Knights. Am not entirely sure what to make of the whole Dick/Barbara/Bruce thing. (Er. Not all at the same time.)
(...necessarily.)
But there's definitely a *thing* there. I mean, you've got the whole acknowledged Dick/Babs past (Subzero is the only time we actually *see* it, right?) and then the Bruce/Barbara subtext (which, according to Batman Beyond... is text. And boy, do I *ever* want to come back and look at that more closely) and then Dick/Bruce, which is... less there than in the comics (that I've seen)- this Dick is less needy, more independent. But still *there*.
I love my incestuous dysfunctional complicated Batfamily.
The plot of "Mask of the Phantasm" was a bit of a yawner... I'd seen it when I was younger so I knew The Twist, and otherwise... generic love interest never seen before or since, blah, blah, blah. Whatever.
What *did* interest me was the scene where Bruce is in front of his parents' grave, asking, essentially, for them to release him from the vow he made to avenge their deaths. Bruce doesn't think they will- he *begs* them to release him. And... the implication is that they *don't*. (Or something doesn't, anyway.)
And that's... kind of fucked up. Really. I mean, he was *nine* when he made that promise. *Nine*.
But more than that, who actually thinks their parents would rather have them sacrifice pretty much *everything* to fight an unwinnable battle, instead of living a happy life with a person they love? (Assuming Bruce would be content to do so, which I doubt. But later for that.) This, to me, indicates that all wasn't quite right in the Wayne household. Now, from what I've seen, we have even less information on toon!Bruce's family than comic!Bruce's- the only episode I recall seeing them in is "The Gray Ghost", where Bruce's father carries him up to bed. (Haven't watched all of Gotham Knights yet, haven't read any of the toon tie-in comics.) So this is kind of all I've got to extrapolate from. How much of it is that Bruce's parents were a bit off, and how much it is that Bruce is projecting... who knows.
But of course, it makes more sense to me that there was *something* about Bruce's homelife. His obsession with his parents' death- and how much of his obsession *is* about his parents' death, on which I waver- is something that fascinates me in all his incarnations. I just can't look at this man who some *seventy* years later has, arguably, *still* not moved on and think that, sure, this guy had a totally normal life before then. I don't think they were necessarily abusive- nothing quite so clear cut. But it does seem that Bruce has the assumption that they expect an inhuman amount from him.
On the other hand, most people who lost their parents don't see them murdered in front of them. So. There is that. Still, I think the idea that they wouldn't forgive him for moving on is... disturbing. And by far the most interesting thing about the movie.
I can't really buy that Bruce would be happy settling down with Andrea in any case. Taking the movie as a separate entity, there isn't a lot of support for that based on Bruce's character- they seem genuinely happy together. But taking the Bruce that I know from the rest of the series... nah. They'd be happy for a little while, and then Bruce would get broody and frightening.
But then, I really really really hate the whole notion of the heterosexual romance that 'saves' the hero and makes everything better. Because Twu Wove (between a Man and a Woman) conquers all, doncha know? But that's a rant for another day.
(As an aside, one of the things I've often wanted to explore, if I can ever find my writing mojo again, is what Bruce would be like if he weren't Batman. Not if his parents hadn't died, but if the bat hadn't ccrashed his window, or he inhabited a world where dressing up in spandex to fight crime *wasn't* considered a viable career choice. I have the idea that in some ways, without that outlet, he'd be a lot scarier than he currently is.)
On the other hand, I can take some support from the scene in front of the grave and the scene with the bats, which seems to be saying that even if Bruce really *does* want to quit, tough luck. There's something there that holds him, whether he will or no. Which ties in to other theories I have about Gotham, and the Bat (as separate, sort of, from Batman- the "Big Scary Batgod," if you will) and the spirits of cities. Which is another post for another time, when I have more evidence.
Will probably come back to Subzero at some point to look at the Dick/Babs relationship. Because... woo, Gotham Knights. Am not entirely sure what to make of the whole Dick/Barbara/Bruce thing. (Er. Not all at the same time.)
(...necessarily.)
But there's definitely a *thing* there. I mean, you've got the whole acknowledged Dick/Babs past (Subzero is the only time we actually *see* it, right?) and then the Bruce/Barbara subtext (which, according to Batman Beyond... is text. And boy, do I *ever* want to come back and look at that more closely) and then Dick/Bruce, which is... less there than in the comics (that I've seen)- this Dick is less needy, more independent. But still *there*.
I love my incestuous dysfunctional complicated Batfamily.