Because that fear of female sexuality is very Victorian, and a lot of btvs and the treatment of female sexuality in it makes sense. even with the comics. It reminds me of the creation of the femme fatale in the late 19th century by men who were nervous about feminism, about immigrants and blacks, who made women monstrous, the whole saving one's seed and copulating only for reproduction, blah blah bitty blah....Being afraid of female sexuality, imaging vaginas have little teeth, that men will be devoured as helpless victims, is the most bizarre notion to me. A professor from Scotland jokingly called it "sexy death" but it's a pretty sick joke.
If someone is afraid of female sexuality, if they're afraid of sex, then that indicates to me a fear of life, not death, or a confusion of the two because sexuality (and sensuality) are core components of life. We wouldn't be here without it, right?
True! And yet, sex is so often conflated with death (see: Freud. See also: why I can't take Freud seriously). Which I feel is strongly connected to all that stuff you mentioned in your previous paragraph and is a very male-centric view: the fear of losing yourself in sex, succumbing helplessly to a woman's mysterious wiles. But it goes the other way around too, doesn't it? I mean, into whom is the lesson that sex is scary and dangerous pounded more vigorously than into young girls? When we talk about the first sexual experience of girls/women, it's in terms of "popping the cherry", "tearing the hymen", "busting a virgin". All horrifyingly violent imagery.
And if Joss is likewise freaked out by love scenes, by female sexuality, then how can he make or be expected to make a truly "empowering" story for and about women? He shows his hand all over the place - in the opening act of WTTH, in Darla and Dru, in Sheila and Faith as "bad girls", in sexuality being Buffy's undoing over and over again, and she ends up the series in a chaste relationship, in Joyce dying right after she goes on a date with a man for the first time in the series entirely of her own free will, in Tara being shot to death in Joyce's bedroom after making love to Willow....
Wow. When you list up all of this, it really is incredibly creepy. The whole conflation of "sexual = bad" in female characters has also bothered me a lot. Or the other way around, that you can tell a woman is evil by how openly sexual it is. Add to that S6 and the implication that frequent and intense sex and kink are connected to mental illness, and I'm just about done. Which is why I do love Buffy's little throw-away line about oil-wrestling in Chosen; it's mere crumbs, but a tiny hint that a more mentally balanced Buffy is still kinky as hell. :P (Also she is totally a slasher, which amuses me to no end. I have the beginning of an early-seasons fic in which Willow explains the wonders of slash to Buffy sitting around on my hard drive.)
I also feel inadequate to the task, but maybe just mentioning it will be enough to get the ball rolling?
Re: 2/3, actually.red_satin_dollJuly 3 2013, 19:31:45 UTC
See also: why I can't take Freud seriously
I've read a couple of Alice Miller's books (author of "the Drama of the Gifted Child") including the one in which she outlined why she was no longer a Freudian psychotherapist: she began to take a good hard look at the sexism of her field and Freud's theories. His original ideas had been much more "feminist" in nature and I'd say more accurate; he took his patients' reports of sexual abuse much more seriously, but was encouraged by peers to alter his theories to fit current male-dominated ideas: female patients were hysterical, in love with their fathers and making it all up. I was in a performance art class in college when one of the other students did a performance spouting ridiculous notions about women, as if she were a man, and we were all laughing at the stupidity of the ideas until we began to realize that she was reciting Freud; then an uneasy hush fell over the class. Ouch.
I mean, into whom is the lesson that sex is scary and dangerous pounded more vigorously than into young girls? ....All horrifyingly violent imagery.
True, women were taught to avoid sex until marriage, that their sexuality only existed for their husband's pleasure and use, that men are monsters as well. There is a difference though in that men have been encouraged to claim their sexual pleasure, they've gone to whores, they've learned to masturbate and it's either been considered acceptable or at least people looked the other way because, you know, they can't help themselves. Women have been discouraged from claiming and enjoying their sexuality - they were unclean etc and men did awful things simply because women existed. Our bodies, our genitals, our menstruation, is a dirty shameful secret. I never heard the worlds "labia" & "clictoris" until i was in college in the late '80's. "Down there" was the source of blood, piss and shit, someplace dirty and forbidden. It was near the area my stepfather spanked me with a belt: no positive associations there. My professor, a man in his 60's, quietly handed me a book on masturbation for women by a female doctor when I asked him "what are these?", and it was scary at first but I think also amazing and liberating. I loved it when I came across a sort of picture book a couple of decades later, "Care and feeding of your clitoris" aimed at preteen girls, because that's something I would want to give to all girls, to teach them, preferably before they were teens.
it's in terms of "popping the cherry",
I saw Buffy's cherry print dress in Restless and nearly shouted "You've GOT to be fucking kidding me."
you can tell a woman is evil by how openly sexual it is.
YES. Darla, Sheila in School Hard, Dru, Faith, etc. Buffy fears that sex with Spike is a sign that she's evil. Dru plays of helpless little girl until What's My Line when she is "healed"; then she puts on a red dress, flirts openly with "Daddy" and sides with Angelus in his scheme to end the world. She's no longer just wacko but dangerous in her own right. In School Hard she kills "bad girl" Sheila; in Becoming she kills the virginal, inexperienced Kendra. Women are supposed to be good girls, but if they remain innocent they are also increasing the risk of being victimized so damned either way, right?
Add to that S6 and the implication that frequent and intense sex and kink are connected to mental illness, and I'm just about done.
PREACH
Which is why I do love Buffy's little throw-away line about oil-wrestling in Chosen; it's mere crumbs, but a tiny hint that a more mentally balanced Buffy is still kinky as hell. :P
Exactly. For once it's not a joke at her expense. Which is why I hated the webcomic where her nightmare is about Angel and Spike kissing one another and ignoring her ; I know it's meant to be a nightmare but it's played for laughs, at Buffy's expense. The spacefrak is played as a joke as well. that's just ugly and regressive. So many problems here, so little time.
I have the beginning of an early-seasons fic in which Willow explains the wonders of slash to Buffy sitting around on my hard drive.
Re: 2/3, actually.lanoyeeJuly 3 2013, 21:35:51 UTC
until we began to realize that she was reciting Freud; then an uneasy hush fell over the class. Ouch.
Ow. Ow. Ouch indeed.
His original ideas had been much more "feminist" in nature and I'd say more accurate; he took his patients' reports of sexual abuse much more seriously, but was encouraged by peers to alter his theories to fit current male-dominated ideas
That is really interesting, actually. I'll have to look her up.
they've learned to masturbate
Wasn't male masturbation extremely frowned upon for a while, though? I think I read/heard things to that effect. Of course, I doubt that at that time, people were aware female masturbation was even possible, because no way would a woman have sexual urges unless she's a whore, of course. :|
Our bodies, our genitals, our menstruation, is a dirty shameful secret. I never heard the worlds "labia" & "clictoris" until i was in college in the late '80's. "Down there" was the source of blood, piss and shit, someplace dirty and forbidden. It was near the area my stepfather spanked me with a belt: no positive associations there.
Oh honey, I'm so sorry. :( *hugs and loves on* I think for me personally, having grown up in the 90s, it was better. I was still scandalized at masturbation when I first learned about it, but then I was also a strange kid. I learned about it in an article praising its advantages for women especially and pleading for more acceptance and less shame, no less! But somehow I had this thing where no matter how it was treated, if I learned about something taboo I would mostly pick up the taboo factor. I had and have my own hangups with "being a good girl" etc.
I loved it when I came across a sort of picture book a couple of decades later, "Care and feeding of your clitoris" aimed at preteen girls, because that's something I would want to give to all girls, to teach them, preferably before they were teens.
Oh, that sounds like a great book! I definitely think that open, shame-free and consent-oriented sex education is something children should be taught at a young age.
Buffy fears that sex with Spike is a sign that she's evil.
YES. It's in part because, well, Spike is evil, and what does it say about her that she is attracted to someone evil? Does it mean she condones all his evildoing? But yes, she is absolutely scared of her own sexual desires.
Dru plays of helpless little girl until What's My Line when she is "healed"; then she puts on a red dress, flirts openly with "Daddy" and sides with Angelus in his scheme to end the world.
Funnily enough: how Freudian. :[
She's no longer just wacko
Y'know, an aside about Dru & mental illness would be really interesting. Actually, I just remembered a Spuffy fic I read: an AU wherein it was decided Buffy had to flee Sunnydale to escape a Quentin Travers who had gone completely megalomanic, and then Giles got still-evil!Spike as her bodyguard and lured him with a magical artifact which could "cure" Drusilla of her mental illness (for the sake of being together 5eva, of course). Towards the end of the fic, one of the perils Buffy faced was a poison which warped her perceptions to the point of making her suicidal. Of course, she and Spike had fallen in love at that point and Spike used the artifact to cure Buffy instead. There was an interesting thought in there about how Drusilla's illness was arguably a part of her personality (in the sense that it she had been driven to illness by Angelus even before becoming a vampire, and then fixed in that state forever), to the extent that "curing" her just like that might perhaps be considered a violation, or at least Spike trying to mold her according to his desires; whereas Buffy had clearly been poisoned. Which, of course, raises questions about the nature of mental illness itself.
but dangerous in her own right. In School Hard she kills "bad girl" Sheila; in Becoming she kills the virginal, inexperienced Kendra. Women are supposed to be good girls, but if they remain innocent they are also increasing the risk of being victimized so damned either way, right?
Re: 2/3, actually.red_satin_dollJuly 5 2013, 00:36:48 UTC
I just looked up Alice's website, which focuses on Child abuse. She was born in 1923 in Switzerland and is still alive http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php I think the book I referenced is "Thou Shalt Not Be Aware" revised 1998; I'd like to read more of her books though; they all focus on child abuse, and she's revised some of them in 1997, including her most famous "Drama of the gifted child". I suspect the copy I read was the original edition from 15 years previously. http://www.alice-miller.com/books_en.php?page=3
Wasn't male masturbation extremely frowned upon for a while, though? I think I read/heard things to that effect.
True,- there are biblical injunctions against "spilling the seed" but it doesn't actually refer to masturbation itself but pulling out of intercourse before inseminating the woman and thus "wasting" it. But that was extended to masturbation later on. Ok, how did we get on this subject? My bad. True fact - the first electric vibrators were invented in the 19th century and were used by Doctors to provoke "paroxysms" in their female patients (ie orgasms) which were thought to "release" the pressures of hysteria and such. *lol*
Oh honey, I'm so sorry. :( *hugs and loves on* I think for me personally, having grown up in the 90s, it was better.
Thank you, sweetie *hugs back* . It did occur to me that I was getting TMI, so I hope I didn't offend. It's really important to me though - not something I talk about but something that was really sort of mind-blowing in a way; there I was, a smart, well-read, all-A college student in the late 20th century and here I didn't know my own body. It was sobering. So I'm really happy to hear that it's getting better and I hope it continues to do so. (BTW - if you grew up in the '90's are you old enough that we can be having this conversation? *lol*)
I had and have my own hangups with "being a good girl" etc.
YES. the good girl syndrome. I was the good daughter, my younger sister the "bad girl" by comparison (not bad, but tough and sassy and smoked etc. I used to envy her boldness.) Sort of like good slayer/bad slayer? Maybe that's another reason I identify with Buffy. But that perception of oneself as a "good girl" can be very limiting/damaging (Another good example is Michelle Pfieffer as Selina Kyle/Catwoman in Batman Returns, which to me is an iconic performance. she's a good girl who breaks out of that after being resurrected, damaged much like Buffy. So she's sort of Buffy and Faith rolled into one, I guess.)
I definitely think that open, shame-free and consent-oriented sex education is something children should be taught at a young age.
PREACH IT. But given the fact that sex education itself is STILL controversial in the US thanks to conservative forces in this country, that's a long ways away. I think it just makes plain damn sense though.
Spike is evil, and what does it say about her that she is attracted to someone evil? Does it mean she condones all his evildoing?
You'd enjoy the convo I'm having with infinitewhale on the subject of Buffy and Spike (we can talk a blue streak let me tell you *lol*) http://infinitewhale.livejournal.com/29995.html?thread=385579&#t385579 the "what does it say about her?" is very much in play, in terms of 1) Angel didn't love her without a soul, how could Spike possibly do? It's not something she can wrap her mind around. Did that mean that he could love her but chose not to? 2) The "normal guy" (Riley) left her, Angel left her after he had his soul back, Giles left knowing the pain she was in, so what DOES it say about her that the only one who "wants her" is Spike? How broken and fucked-up must she be? 3) Becoming a demon has been one of her primary fears the entire series (Nightmares) : the fear of being abandoned, cut off (physically and emotionally), losing her humanity, etc. Spike preys upon her at her lowest point emotionally and keys right into her fears.
Re: 2/3, actually.red_satin_dollJuly 5 2013, 00:37:55 UTC
But definitely Joss has some regressive and screwed-up idea about women's sexuality. the spacefrak is the most knife-in-the-gut example of this I can imagine. But it's there all along. the original idea for the series was for the "Blond in the alley" in a horror movie to fight back against the monster, but WTTH also opens with a female monster, Darla, who is Buffy's first Dark mirror, and who kills (consumes) a boy.
Funnily enough: how Freudian. :[
Amirite? not funny in a ha-ha way, more like a sick joke.
Which, of course, raises questions about the nature of mental illness itself.
Huh. That fic does sound like it raises interesting questions. I sort of like fics that deal with Buffy's mental issues if they can do so in a substantial way, and not just use it as an excuse for Spike to get to be the big manly hero and Buffy the damsel in distress - again. ( WHY is that the dynamic in so many fics?) And Spike still being evil but he and Buffy falling in love? Is usually a "meh" for me, but I might be interested in glancing at it anyway if you find the link. I don't think I've seen a fic linking Dru and Buffy's mental states like that.
In terms of the nature of it - that really is something I have to ponder. I had my first bout of "suicidal ideations" in my 20's, but I know I was most likely very depressed as a teenager, angry and expressing it in overeating, mostly. Sort of friendless (and yes that does sound pathetic); closed-off because of the abuse, etc etc. I didn't find out about my father's mental illness until my teens, and it was pretty shattering news. Suddenly it became a part of me, somehow, that I was stained with it as well; I started reading books on mental illness but was also afraid of going insane for a time. Or maybe that was normal adolescent stuff, who knows? Would i rather be without it? Oh yes. Is that possible? IDK. I thought maybe I was suicidal or depressed because I was unemployed, my life was awful, blah blah but then I hear about a famous actor or author or someone like Spaulding Grey who has resources at his disposal, is working on achieving closure with old traumas, and yet tries or succeeds in committing suicide. why did some people survive the concentration camps better than others, with their spirits unbroken?
If someone is afraid of female sexuality, if they're afraid of sex, then that indicates to me a fear of life, not death, or a confusion of the two because sexuality (and sensuality) are core components of life. We wouldn't be here without it, right?
True! And yet, sex is so often conflated with death (see: Freud. See also: why I can't take Freud seriously). Which I feel is strongly connected to all that stuff you mentioned in your previous paragraph and is a very male-centric view: the fear of losing yourself in sex, succumbing helplessly to a woman's mysterious wiles.
But it goes the other way around too, doesn't it? I mean, into whom is the lesson that sex is scary and dangerous pounded more vigorously than into young girls? When we talk about the first sexual experience of girls/women, it's in terms of "popping the cherry", "tearing the hymen", "busting a virgin". All horrifyingly violent imagery.
And if Joss is likewise freaked out by love scenes, by female sexuality, then how can he make or be expected to make a truly "empowering" story for and about women? He shows his hand all over the place - in the opening act of WTTH, in Darla and Dru, in Sheila and Faith as "bad girls", in sexuality being Buffy's undoing over and over again, and she ends up the series in a chaste relationship, in Joyce dying right after she goes on a date with a man for the first time in the series entirely of her own free will, in Tara being shot to death in Joyce's bedroom after making love to Willow....
Wow. When you list up all of this, it really is incredibly creepy. The whole conflation of "sexual = bad" in female characters has also bothered me a lot. Or the other way around, that you can tell a woman is evil by how openly sexual it is. Add to that S6 and the implication that frequent and intense sex and kink are connected to mental illness, and I'm just about done. Which is why I do love Buffy's little throw-away line about oil-wrestling in Chosen; it's mere crumbs, but a tiny hint that a more mentally balanced Buffy is still kinky as hell. :P (Also she is totally a slasher, which amuses me to no end. I have the beginning of an early-seasons fic in which Willow explains the wonders of slash to Buffy sitting around on my hard drive.)
I also feel inadequate to the task, but maybe just mentioning it will be enough to get the ball rolling?
Who knows? Maybe someone will catch on that.
Reply
I've read a couple of Alice Miller's books (author of "the Drama of the Gifted Child") including the one in which she outlined why she was no longer a Freudian psychotherapist: she began to take a good hard look at the sexism of her field and Freud's theories. His original ideas had been much more "feminist" in nature and I'd say more accurate; he took his patients' reports of sexual abuse much more seriously, but was encouraged by peers to alter his theories to fit current male-dominated ideas: female patients were hysterical, in love with their fathers and making it all up. I was in a performance art class in college when one of the other students did a performance spouting ridiculous notions about women, as if she were a man, and we were all laughing at the stupidity of the ideas until we began to realize that she was reciting Freud; then an uneasy hush fell over the class. Ouch.
I mean, into whom is the lesson that sex is scary and dangerous pounded more vigorously than into young girls? ....All horrifyingly violent imagery.
True, women were taught to avoid sex until marriage, that their sexuality only existed for their husband's pleasure and use, that men are monsters as well. There is a difference though in that men have been encouraged to claim their sexual pleasure, they've gone to whores, they've learned to masturbate and it's either been considered acceptable or at least people looked the other way because, you know, they can't help themselves. Women have been discouraged from claiming and enjoying their sexuality - they were unclean etc and men did awful things simply because women existed. Our bodies, our genitals, our menstruation, is a dirty shameful secret. I never heard the worlds "labia" & "clictoris" until i was in college in the late '80's. "Down there" was the source of blood, piss and shit, someplace dirty and forbidden. It was near the area my stepfather spanked me with a belt: no positive associations there. My professor, a man in his 60's, quietly handed me a book on masturbation for women by a female doctor when I asked him "what are these?", and it was scary at first but I think also amazing and liberating. I loved it when I came across a sort of picture book a couple of decades later, "Care and feeding of your clitoris" aimed at preteen girls, because that's something I would want to give to all girls, to teach them, preferably before they were teens.
it's in terms of "popping the cherry",
I saw Buffy's cherry print dress in Restless and nearly shouted "You've GOT to be fucking kidding me."
you can tell a woman is evil by how openly sexual it is.
YES. Darla, Sheila in School Hard, Dru, Faith, etc. Buffy fears that sex with Spike is a sign that she's evil. Dru plays of helpless little girl until What's My Line when she is "healed"; then she puts on a red dress, flirts openly with "Daddy" and sides with Angelus in his scheme to end the world. She's no longer just wacko but dangerous in her own right. In School Hard she kills "bad girl" Sheila; in Becoming she kills the virginal, inexperienced Kendra. Women are supposed to be good girls, but if they remain innocent they are also increasing the risk of being victimized so damned either way, right?
Add to that S6 and the implication that frequent and intense sex and kink are connected to mental illness, and I'm just about done.
PREACH
Which is why I do love Buffy's little throw-away line about oil-wrestling in Chosen; it's mere crumbs, but a tiny hint that a more mentally balanced Buffy is still kinky as hell. :P
Exactly. For once it's not a joke at her expense. Which is why I hated the webcomic where her nightmare is about Angel and Spike kissing one another and ignoring her ; I know it's meant to be a nightmare but it's played for laughs, at Buffy's expense. The spacefrak is played as a joke as well. that's just ugly and regressive. So many problems here, so little time.
I have the beginning of an early-seasons fic in which Willow explains the wonders of slash to Buffy sitting around on my hard drive.
I totally support this project. :)
Reply
Ow. Ow. Ouch indeed.
His original ideas had been much more "feminist" in nature and I'd say more accurate; he took his patients' reports of sexual abuse much more seriously, but was encouraged by peers to alter his theories to fit current male-dominated ideas
That is really interesting, actually. I'll have to look her up.
they've learned to masturbate
Wasn't male masturbation extremely frowned upon for a while, though? I think I read/heard things to that effect. Of course, I doubt that at that time, people were aware female masturbation was even possible, because no way would a woman have sexual urges unless she's a whore, of course. :|
Our bodies, our genitals, our menstruation, is a dirty shameful secret. I never heard the worlds "labia" & "clictoris" until i was in college in the late '80's. "Down there" was the source of blood, piss and shit, someplace dirty and forbidden. It was near the area my stepfather spanked me with a belt: no positive associations there.
Oh honey, I'm so sorry. :( *hugs and loves on* I think for me personally, having grown up in the 90s, it was better. I was still scandalized at masturbation when I first learned about it, but then I was also a strange kid. I learned about it in an article praising its advantages for women especially and pleading for more acceptance and less shame, no less! But somehow I had this thing where no matter how it was treated, if I learned about something taboo I would mostly pick up the taboo factor. I had and have my own hangups with "being a good girl" etc.
I loved it when I came across a sort of picture book a couple of decades later, "Care and feeding of your clitoris" aimed at preteen girls, because that's something I would want to give to all girls, to teach them, preferably before they were teens.
Oh, that sounds like a great book! I definitely think that open, shame-free and consent-oriented sex education is something children should be taught at a young age.
Buffy fears that sex with Spike is a sign that she's evil.
YES. It's in part because, well, Spike is evil, and what does it say about her that she is attracted to someone evil? Does it mean she condones all his evildoing? But yes, she is absolutely scared of her own sexual desires.
Dru plays of helpless little girl until What's My Line when she is "healed"; then she puts on a red dress, flirts openly with "Daddy" and sides with Angelus in his scheme to end the world.
Funnily enough: how Freudian. :[
She's no longer just wacko
Y'know, an aside about Dru & mental illness would be really interesting. Actually, I just remembered a Spuffy fic I read: an AU wherein it was decided Buffy had to flee Sunnydale to escape a Quentin Travers who had gone completely megalomanic, and then Giles got still-evil!Spike as her bodyguard and lured him with a magical artifact which could "cure" Drusilla of her mental illness (for the sake of being together 5eva, of course). Towards the end of the fic, one of the perils Buffy faced was a poison which warped her perceptions to the point of making her suicidal. Of course, she and Spike had fallen in love at that point and Spike used the artifact to cure Buffy instead. There was an interesting thought in there about how Drusilla's illness was arguably a part of her personality (in the sense that it she had been driven to illness by Angelus even before becoming a vampire, and then fixed in that state forever), to the extent that "curing" her just like that might perhaps be considered a violation, or at least Spike trying to mold her according to his desires; whereas Buffy had clearly been poisoned. Which, of course, raises questions about the nature of mental illness itself.
but dangerous in her own right. In School Hard she kills "bad girl" Sheila; in Becoming she kills the virginal, inexperienced Kendra. Women are supposed to be good girls, but if they remain innocent they are also increasing the risk of being victimized so damned either way, right?
PRETTY MUCH.
Reply
http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php I think the book I referenced is "Thou Shalt Not Be Aware" revised 1998; I'd like to read more of her books though; they all focus on child abuse, and she's revised some of them in 1997, including her most famous "Drama of the gifted child". I suspect the copy I read was the original edition from 15 years previously.
http://www.alice-miller.com/books_en.php?page=3
Wasn't male masturbation extremely frowned upon for a while, though? I think I read/heard things to that effect.
True,- there are biblical injunctions against "spilling the seed" but it doesn't actually refer to masturbation itself but pulling out of intercourse before inseminating the woman and thus "wasting" it. But that was extended to masturbation later on. Ok, how did we get on this subject? My bad. True fact - the first electric vibrators were invented in the 19th century and were used by Doctors to provoke "paroxysms" in their female patients (ie orgasms) which were thought to "release" the pressures of hysteria and such. *lol*
Oh honey, I'm so sorry. :( *hugs and loves on* I think for me personally, having grown up in the 90s, it was better.
Thank you, sweetie *hugs back* . It did occur to me that I was getting TMI, so I hope I didn't offend. It's really important to me though - not something I talk about but something that was really sort of mind-blowing in a way; there I was, a smart, well-read, all-A college student in the late 20th century and here I didn't know my own body. It was sobering. So I'm really happy to hear that it's getting better and I hope it continues to do so. (BTW - if you grew up in the '90's are you old enough that we can be having this conversation? *lol*)
I had and have my own hangups with "being a good girl" etc.
YES. the good girl syndrome. I was the good daughter, my younger sister the "bad girl" by comparison (not bad, but tough and sassy and smoked etc. I used to envy her boldness.) Sort of like good slayer/bad slayer? Maybe that's another reason I identify with Buffy. But that perception of oneself as a "good girl" can be very limiting/damaging (Another good example is Michelle Pfieffer as Selina Kyle/Catwoman in Batman Returns, which to me is an iconic performance. she's a good girl who breaks out of that after being resurrected, damaged much like Buffy. So she's sort of Buffy and Faith rolled into one, I guess.)
I definitely think that open, shame-free and consent-oriented sex education is something children should be taught at a young age.
PREACH IT. But given the fact that sex education itself is STILL controversial in the US thanks to conservative forces in this country, that's a long ways away. I think it just makes plain damn sense though.
Spike is evil, and what does it say about her that she is attracted to someone evil? Does it mean she condones all his evildoing?
You'd enjoy the convo I'm having with infinitewhale on the subject of Buffy and Spike (we can talk a blue streak let me tell you *lol*) http://infinitewhale.livejournal.com/29995.html?thread=385579&#t385579 the "what does it say about her?" is very much in play, in terms of 1) Angel didn't love her without a soul, how could Spike possibly do? It's not something she can wrap her mind around. Did that mean that he could love her but chose not to? 2) The "normal guy" (Riley) left her, Angel left her after he had his soul back, Giles left knowing the pain she was in, so what DOES it say about her that the only one who "wants her" is Spike? How broken and fucked-up must she be? 3) Becoming a demon has been one of her primary fears the entire series (Nightmares) : the fear of being abandoned, cut off (physically and emotionally), losing her humanity, etc. Spike preys upon her at her lowest point emotionally and keys right into her fears.
Reply
Funnily enough: how Freudian. :[
Amirite? not funny in a ha-ha way, more like a sick joke.
Which, of course, raises questions about the nature of mental illness itself.
Huh. That fic does sound like it raises interesting questions. I sort of like fics that deal with Buffy's mental issues if they can do so in a substantial way, and not just use it as an excuse for Spike to get to be the big manly hero and Buffy the damsel in distress - again. ( WHY is that the dynamic in so many fics?) And Spike still being evil but he and Buffy falling in love? Is usually a "meh" for me, but I might be interested in glancing at it anyway if you find the link. I don't think I've seen a fic linking Dru and Buffy's mental states like that.
In terms of the nature of it - that really is something I have to ponder. I had my first bout of "suicidal ideations" in my 20's, but I know I was most likely very depressed as a teenager, angry and expressing it in overeating, mostly. Sort of friendless (and yes that does sound pathetic); closed-off because of the abuse, etc etc. I didn't find out about my father's mental illness until my teens, and it was pretty shattering news. Suddenly it became a part of me, somehow, that I was stained with it as well; I started reading books on mental illness but was also afraid of going insane for a time. Or maybe that was normal adolescent stuff, who knows? Would i rather be without it? Oh yes. Is that possible? IDK. I thought maybe I was suicidal or depressed because I was unemployed, my life was awful, blah blah but then I hear about a famous actor or author or someone like Spaulding Grey who has resources at his disposal, is working on achieving closure with old traumas, and yet tries or succeeds in committing suicide. why did some people survive the concentration camps better than others, with their spirits unbroken?
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