Poll Time! What's it all about, Buffy? redux

[rebcake]

Perhaps I'm beating a dead horse, but here goes.

I was fascinated by the huge differences in how people perceive the way Buffy and Spike start their "relationship". I'm trying to find the crux of the divergence, and here is one possibility that came to mind:

Poll I give up! (The Buffy Edition)
Yes, yes, we know it was a combination of factors. But which was the primary motivator for

Comments

[rebcake]

I must agree that the poll has not really illuminated the point of divergence. And I thought I was really onto something! Tsk.

I actually have an older poll about some other points of contention in the episode, and those results are more wide-ranging. That can be found here:

http://fantas-magoria.livejournal.com/335454.html

But it doesn't clarify for me if there is a particular set of world views that can explain why this situation excites such different readings. And probably that's because there is no such straightforward solution.

I just read a really insightful meta on this period that posits that we are shown what the characters think are their problems, but that those aren't necessarily the actual problems. It makes it tricky for the audience, because hitherto we could usually be assured that characters were correct in their interpretations of events, or would be by episode or arc end. There is no such assurance in this season. It's a fairly radical shift in the storytelling. I like it.

[rebcake]

I don't know. I'd say that's part of what is going on, but not the whole story. I don't know if it's possible to capture the whole story, which is probably why we've got millions of words of fanfic making the attempt.

Oh, and here's a link to that meta:

http://coracle33.livejournal.com/915.html

Enjoy!

[ms_scarletibis]

FFL is kind of dated at this point though, isn't it? Everyone says Spike represents death to her--the one slayer he chose to slay and couldn't. And by the time s6 roles around, he's the one to save her from a firey death, so that just doesn't jive with me. *shrug*

I think part of the ills that are derived in their relationship are more due to his not having a soul, which is the reason why he is treated less than as opposed to action, I think. "Evil, disgusting thing" gets thrown around a lot this season, at the very least ;)

[ms_scarletibis]

I was talking about Spike up to the point of "Smashed." And as for "As You Were," I tend to go with this particular reading, for what was onscreen was entirely too simplistic (and frankly, stupid): http://theohara.livejournal.com/162286.html

[aycheb]

This season more than anything shows how loving a person isn't enough to "fix" them. I admire it for that bold step, because so many people waste their lives on trying to fix their partner.
It really is the season of "Love is not enough" at least as much if not more even more than the official theme of "Life is the big bad." Spike's love for Buffy can't redeem him, Tara's can't save Willow. Anya's and Xander's - it all falls apart, the centre cannot hold. Like Joss says - love is a selfish emotion (romantic love, I think he still believes in the familial kind).

[red_satin_doll]

"Love is not enough"

Which I think raises the question - and I think it's one that stretches across the show, and definitely part of not just Buffy's journey, but all the characters, "What is love? How do we define it?" We all know that that single word in the English language is terribly inadequate. Buffy said she was "in love" with Angel, but she was playing out a traditional romantic trope that went horribly wrong. Part of the journey of everyone on the show is learning that the cultural expections and stereotypes of what "love" should be don't apply.

I actually think of Anya and Xander as one of the most loving couples on the show - and it starts with a gender-role reversal, where she is the one who initiates sex rather than the other way around, and comes around to tenderness and affection only afterward, because of time spent together. (Not sure where I'm going with this one, actually.)