[DnD] I think I just fixed Fighters.

[reaverta]

Hm. It sure has been a long time since I posted anything at all about D&D on here, isn't it? Well, I figure I may as well change, at least when discussing experimental concepts. Where better to start than Fighters?

It's long been held by many, many experienced groups that as the levels climb, Fighters tend to fall behind. (Well, okay melee classes

Comments

[lord_reluctant]

For the most part, I like. The goal is one I can get behind and this is a great beginning. May have to put more effort into getting a game off the ground so we can do some playtesting.

But let's get down to the gritty mechanics shall we?
Skills: I'll start with what I probably have most issue with. If Fighters get Spot as a class skill, then every adventuring class should get it. I can't see why the sword-swinger should be anymore competent at spotting the ravening splatter-beast than the mage who's been along with him since day one.

Tactician:Mechanically sound, don't like the name. The fighter who uses it might not be a tactical type; perhaps something else like prowess or battle mastery might be better (and more evocative).

Disciplined: Again, good mechanics (great idea too), but the name doesn't seem quite right.

Improvisation: My thought here is that this ability might mean certain feats are never taken again. Why bother spending a feat on Improved Bull Rush if you can just pop Improv when you need to make a Bull Rush attempt. I'm unsure if this is a good or a bad thing.

Second Wind: Reduce the duration of the effect and bring it in sooner to break the clerical healing cabal's grip. Again, a great idea.

Definitely need to see this playtested, I think.

[reaverta]

Oh, [i]very[/i] nice comments. For the immediate moment, I'm leaving the names roughly alone, simply because they were short and catchy.
Tactician seems okay - it implies that you're using it for creative tactics, while battle mastery, these days, tends to imply 'better at outright hitting stuff'. Still, open for other ideas that evoke unusual tactics and manouvers.

Disciplined ... yeah, I was trying to go for something like Battle Veteran, or some such, but it sounded so... 13-year-old is. If we find a suitable synonym for "Seen it all and honed his mind against it", yes plz!

Improvisation: The reason you'd take Improved Bull Rush is largely the same reason you'd take it now - you find it's really useful in your campaign, or as a pre-req to other cool stuff. Remember, the improvisations are rare/day, and very short lasting - if you expect it to come up more than one encounter in the entire campaign, you might wanna take it...
Simultaneously (and this is a neat thing that someone pointed out), it might actually increase the odds of Improved Bull Rush being taken - the day you thought it might be useful, you got to try it out. After realising the tactic worked, and doing it several times, you take the feat so it's free from hereon in.

As for Second Wind... I'm hesitant. This was the characters Late Game Heroic Recovery type thing - fighters are not supposed to have healing, so they don't get it very soon. Would you rather have a fairly awesome lategame ability, or Yet Another Mediocre one you got earlier on?
Also, a word on effect/duration: The effect is the same +HP as a Barbarian gets while raging, and that a 16 CHA paladin heals. (How many paladins of 13th level have less than 16 CHA?) The duration was to imply that this wasn't a 'Rage', but simply their digging deep and finding an inner reserve for... two, maybe three (18th level+) hours.
Which is long enough to continue fighting a few more encounters for the day, or to get back to a village to heal before you Pass Out And Die. Remember, a Paladin or Monk could just heal himself outright.
That this is temporary at all is an interesting handicap - any shorter, and it's just a placeholder for the clerics healing rather than actual HP reserve in its own right. You said you wanted to weaken the grip of the cleric healing cabal, didn't you? ;)

[reaverta]

Oh, and I forgot Spot: Spot is there for the same reason that Barbarians get Listen, mechanically. Flavor-wise... Master Archers picking out targets, Guardsmen watching from a tower, elite Watchmen eyeing newcomers, checking for disguises, and Knights trying to spot freakin' [i]Heraldry[/i]. A Fighter is someone who has been out on the battlefield a lot; keen eyes can save lives. Hearing tends to be less crucial, though - orders are shouted, trumpeted, or drummed, and in the din of the battlefeild you're pressed to hear anything but the screams of the dying.
Hence, Fighters with Spot checks! If it bugs you, go ask why Barbarians have such hearing, or why Druids are walking radars. (Rangers and Rogues I can get; they're scouts and lookouts by nature. But unless you want to clamp spot/listen down to exclusively those two, I don't see the harm in it being marginally more spread out.)

Does that do ya? Or does it bug ya 'cuz They've Never Had It Before?

[reaverta]

I just had a thought on how to explain the skills section better, having run into someone that helped discuss thoughts in the other direction. Indeed, they were annoyed I hadn't fixed the skills problem enough, and I think they had a point, which discussing it has let me articulate my own arguement better.

"I can't see why the sword-swinger should be anymore competent at spotting the ravening splatter-beast than the mage who's been along with him since day one."

This here is the inherent problem - Fighters are seen as 'the sword swinger'. Now, Barbarians and Paladins... they're sword-swingers too, and equally capable at it (in their own particular ways). But that's the thing - the Paladin is a leader and healer, the Barbarian is a nature survivor and polish minesweeper.

The most inherent problem with Fighters is the perception not only should they be no more 'overpowering' than any of the other frontline melee classes, but that that's all they should be allowed to do. So they're just as powerful in combat as everyone else... but unlike everyone else, they shouldn't be allowed added versatility outside?

Fighters represent soldiers, yes, but they represent something more than your average sword-swinger (That'd be, um, a warrior). Elite guards, Watchmen, Knights (Cavalry rather than nobility), Self-taught veterans in combat... these roles all allow, indeed expect more utility than being The Dumb Brick. Mayhap in earlier editions, that's all they were - indeed, maybe that's all they should be in later ones where a characters roles are more peg-in-the-hole, too. But 3.5 tended to give characters both power in combat, and utility out of it - afterall, Bards partly sucked because they lacked the power in combat.

Well, Fighters partly sucked because they lacked the utility out of it. I don't see why letting them - the quinessential "I'll take a shift to guard camp at night" class if there ever was one - be a guard.