Kerry insults troops: claims only "failures" go into armed forces

[reality_hammer]

Kerry is at it again, attacking the troops:
WASHINGTON (AP) - The White House accused Sen. John Kerry on Tuesday of troop-bashing, seizing on a comment the Democrat made to California students that those unable to navigate the country's education system "get stuck in Iraq."

Kerry's entire insult, word for word:
"You know, education, if you make the

Comments

[2dumb4politics]

Clinton owned up to something? I must've missed that between his blatant denials of having sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky.

He did. Nice way to change the subject rather than acknowledge a fact. Speaking of that, would you list your sexual exploits in detail to an investigator who is supposed to be reviewing your finances?

The United States and Japan were mortal enemies long ago, yet they fought side by side in the War on Terror. People change, nations change, and allies change. Amazing what a couple of well-placed nukes can accomplish.

How does this relate to Saddam and bin Laden? Same leaders, (though bin Laden never lead a nation) same governments, same decade, same two people. Their views likewise remained the same.

Zarqawi was the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq before his hot date with a bomb. Nope, no connection to bin Laden there.

Correct, no connection to Saddam or Iraq. What bomb? This is strike two for your imaginitive speculation.

Saddam had an arsenal of nerve gasses and missiles during Desert Storm, I'm sure he disposed of them according to environmental regulations.

Those were munitions that we gave to him to help fight Iran. Many were destroyed after the Gulf War, the rest were forgotten. A few scattered remains were destroyed by the UN in 2003. One single shell was used in an attack on US forces by an insurgent group, but only harmless goo came out of it. You should understand by now that biological weapons have a very short lifespan.

Where are the "thousands of tons" of chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons that Mr. Bush claimed he had? We inspected each of the sites he listed only to find nothing.

Kerry voted for the war using the same information that was presented to President Bush. Perhaps he should consider hanging himself on the same gallows?

He foolishly voted to give Mr. Bush the authority to invade if necessary. He did so knowing that Mr. Bush had threatened to abuse the War Powers act to invade Iraq without congressional approval. Mr. Bush went on to violate his own resolution by invading Iraq without necessity. "He's [Saddam] decieving the inspectors!" Bush said.

My response is irrelevant, but it would not have included invading Iraq, a nation which had no connection to 9/11. Iraq was also a non-threat to us, with no sizeable conventional military, let alone stockpiles of WMD, intention to create WMD, weaponlabs, intention to create weaponlabs, or intentions to create the plans to create weaponlabs.

These are plain, simple facts that I am presenting, rather than conjecture or partisan rhetoric.

You don't have to agree with my politics, just please, please accept the bare minimum: acknowledged fact.

[minxyroo]

Kerry isn't one to bow to pressure from President Bush. If he was cowed by the President, he wouldn't have made the remarks he made and stood by them. I'm certain he wasn't pressured into voting for the war, that was a decision made by Kerry and Kerry alone. Putting strings on his decision to go to war only if it was necessary is just another way the left refuses to stand behind (or even acknowledge) their decisions.

You don't have to agree with my politics, just please, please accept the bare minimum: acknowledged fact.

Don't worry, there wasn't even a remote possibility I would agree with your politics. :)

I do accept acknowledged fact, but you haven't provided me with any.

[2dumb4politics]

I don't identify with the left, but I did say that it was a foolish vote, done as a compromise between Mr. Bush summarily declaring an invasion through abuse of the War Powers Act. It would have been better to put Mr. Bush (figurehead though he may be, it's not like that single person is responsible) under some kind of censure- but how would that have been possible post-9/11, when someone was congradulated as a hero after one of the biggest security failures in this nation's history?

My point was to correct you when you say he voted for the war, which you did again, even though he did not. No one voted for the war, not even Bill Frist. What was up for vote was the resolution to invade Iraq if necessary, a resolution which Mr. Bush violated.

Don't worry, there wasn't even a remote possibility I would agree with your politics. :)

*Badum-ting!

I do accept acknowledged fact, but you haven't provided me with any.

I have presented you with facts, it is up to you to accept them. Saddam did not have WMD stockpiles or connection to Al Queda, or 9/11. It's long passed time to recognize simple facts (which was known prior to the invasion, as evidenced by the non-facts Powel provided to the UN) and figure out how to deal with it.

What else are you waiting for? We have access to every one of Iraq's most double-super-secret-top-secret documents and have still found no official links between Saddam and Al Queda, (who were known enemies) and no WMD stockpiles.

Granted, it takes time to translate and read millions of documents, but that's grasping at straws.

[threefold_quest]

Good luck, no matyter how fun the conversation, you wont get anywhere... For some reason 2dumb is the only one capable of not spewing 'rhetoric' or being mind controlled by a party. The ONLY ONE capable of thinking for himself, and the only one capable of knowing that all right-siders cannot, simply cannot form an individual opinion or think for themself unless they agree with what he says.
Not to mention the superior power to be the lone eye on what facts are facts, and what facts are 'imagined'. No matter how imagined some of his facts seem to present themself as.

[minxyroo]

You're right. I've thrown in the towel, it was fun while it lasted.

Apparently, I have a pretty vivid imagination for making up facts, perhaps I should learn to market that somehow. Wait, does that make me a capitalist pig? ;)

[2dumb4politics]

Good luck, no matyter how fun the conversation, you wont get anywhere... For some reason 2dumb is the only one capable of not spewing 'rhetoric' or being mind controlled by a party.

This, coming from the person who refuses to acknowledge simple facts presented in a non-insulting way? Congradulations.

[threefold_quest]

Thank you!

Actually you have been great to talk to this time, you have been very good about not insulting. Can't say that about our last conversation, I know that when they get going with you, the insults do start. (Some people do find it insulting to be accused of not being able to think for themself or have their facts called rhetoric and unworthy by someone who fails to acknowledge facts as well). We could go over anything all day, but in the end your conclusion is always the same so it's pointless: Republicans/Bush supporters are brainwashed, present no facts ever only rhetoric, and cant see facts when they are presented.

I cant say I blame you, I feel exactly the same way about you.

[2dumb4politics]

It's possible to have a conversation with someone who has a differet opinion without assuming that the person is a zealot or that they'll never change. I have made no assumptions about you, I responded to your words. The one mistake I may have made is in mixing up your opinion with that of Minxyroo, and I apologize for that.

In this case, my position is that Saddam was never a threat to this nation and that the facts support this. As you have provided no links to- nevermind, I did it again.

Our discussion isn't so clear cut. My point is that Kerry's comment was taken out of context, and share your opinion that it was a poorly made comment. For my position to change, I have to be shown that that is wrong. So far, it remains clear that his comment was taken out of context: only the punchline was played, and it is played over and over and over again, rather than the setup with the punchline.

Only the brainwashed are brainwashed, a fanatic is a fanatic (whether it be a Democrat or a Republican). I try not to generalize. I don't recall making such declaritive statements about you before and if I did I apologize. You said such things about me and that "my name is fitting," as well as other things. It hardly matters, but it isn't productive.

[threefold_quest]

I wanna give you a chance with this punchline thing, honestly.
What was the leadup to the 'joke'? I do not like Kerry, and nothing will make me stop thinking he is a pompous ass, but for the sake of understanding and hating what the media did to Rush, I do honestly want to know if they did it to Kerry. Give me some proof.
I agree with you completely (my position wont change unless I'm proven wrong), so far I am just going by the exact words Kerry himself said, and the way he said it, to me that is more proof than assuming he was talking about Bush when he didnt mention Bush. I feel I have more to go on here, but then again, you might know Kerry's personality better than I (I'm not sure I could ever get to know who or what Kerry REALLY is).

And Im sorry about the comment about your name being fitting, it makes me laugh because sometimes I do feel you are too dumb for politics, not because of your brain, simply your stance on issues. But that is all an opinion and I fully understand I could be wrong or worse, I could be too dumb for politics as well...

BTW I think your brain is smart, I just dont like the way it works ;) Please forgive.

(blarg)

[2dumb4politics]

But we've been through this. Frowney face --> :( The "punch line" of his bad joke is the part that gets played over and over. Hearing only that incomplete part means it's out of context. People who heard the whole speech knew what he was talking about, people who hear only the "punch line" think he's talking about the people who are physically stuck in Iraq.

If a given person were to ask, "How did we get stuck in Iraq?" most people would assume it refers to how did the citizens of this nation get metaphorically stuck in the situation that involves Iraq. Blah blah blah... Context is important. Do you watch The Colbert Report?

Look at what this Democrat Robert Wexler said. Just look at it!

"I enjoy cocaine because it's a fun thing to do."

Now, this actually works as a gag, but it's a similar case of playing the punchline without the setup. Some news organizations actually ran the story as a bombshell, with headlines similar to: "Congressman admits on camera to cocaine us."

Re: (blarg)

[threefold_quest]

Good Lord, I know what out of context means, and I know how in the hell it happens. Thats why I want you to give me some evidence that proves it. You cant just say 'the people who were there knew' that doesnt help me, they had to know somehow, not simply because Bush HAD BEEN talked about.

With Rush's out of context media portrayal, one sentence before or after (or the actual entire sentence itself) was all you needed to prove it. Are you saying that I have to just take your word for it or would have had to have been there to know? If people knew what he meant, there must be a reason for it, give me that reason other than 'he talked about Bush in the speech and bashed him a few times'.

Re: (blarg)

[threefold_quest]

btw, did you hear the WHOLE speech or hear from anyone there besides Kerry spokes people or supporters? How do you know other than from his own mouth that 'everyone knew what he was talking about'.

Re: (blarg)

[2dumb4politics]

As I said before, I lament that I don't have the full transcript. Damn, I've searched page after page and I can't find a full transcript. This is totally absurd, even liberal sites that are defending him are too stupid to post full transcripts. CrooksAndLiars should have a video of the full speech, but does not. Nor does MediaMatters. What takes the cake is that the two different websites that hinted that Kerry mentioned Bush and the failed joke in the same paragraph have now been altered to exclude that part.

You did see silentclarity's poll about it on Conservatism, right?

I have yet to comment on Rush Limbaugh's predicament and my arguments do not rely on it. I am reviewing what he said as the idea of a powerful pundit such as he being misrepresented by such an unethical media interests me. Here is Rush himself speaking in an audio clip. What I hear now is no different than what was reported about him, it's a pretty revolting spiel. He does say that he'll apologize if he's wrong about it. What is good is that he's pointing out that people should not say that stem cell research will definately lead to cures for diseases.

Re: (blarg)

[threefold_quest]

Rush played a longer clip of Kerry's comments today, it went like this:
'We're here to talk about education. But let me just say this about education, you know, if you study...(and so on)'

Revolting spiel? How? Fox admitted to manipulatuing his medication for effect and specifically said he over medicated for the ad which caused the shaking.
Rush apologized for being wrong about him being OFF medications, but Rush was right on, not only did Fox mislead about another candidate and political issue for a democratic candidate, but he misled the public of his symptoms for sympathy to further a political agenda having nothing to do with Parkinsons.

Thank God Rush had the balls to speak up, we on the right are so tired of the left using victims to further their agenda in such a way that no one can say anything about it for fear of being attacked as hateful. They are not untouchable or above critisism simply because they have an ailment, especially when they are wrong or lying.

[luprand]

Actually ... he was deceiving the inspectors, just not in the way you'd like to think. How many times did he refuse to admit inspectors into his factories? How many U. N. resolutions did he flagrantly disobey?

As another way to put it ... say a teenager has been acting kind of dopey, and his parents suspect he might be on drugs. Time after time, he locks them out of his room, makes denials, and insults his parents when they ask to see what he's doing in his room.

Are the parents justified in breaking down the door and looking under his bed? And how surprised should they be when they find nothing but a few incense sticks?

[2dumb4politics]

Nit picking about technicalities from decades ago isn't how this nation is supposed to go to war. How many UN resolutions does the US flagrantly disobey? How many more did it disobey by invading Iraq, how many international laws did it break? All of this, just to prove to world correct.

In this example, the teenager is unshaven but is not acting dopey. The parents burn down his room and use their political connections to have him arbitrarily put in jail. Justice, hah.

Are the parents justified in breaking down the door and looking under his bed? And how surprised should they be when they find nothing but a few incense sticks?

That's a decent example, but the "breaking down the door" occurred when the inspectors entered the country and searched whereever they pleased. Yes, they ran into red tape from time to time as they would with any country, but they got the job done. The only reason that the inspections were incomplete was because our government ordered them to end because it wanted to invade (time was running out, he was going to launch nukes at any moment!). Clearly, the Iraqis needed to be disarmed de-terrorismed liberated NOW!

The 2003 timeline for how we got into Iraq is very, very simple and most of it is classified information. All the basics are public knowledge, one just has to accept it.

Then things like this surface, (which I don't believe, but I do consider how our diplomat told Saddam in 1991 that it was okay for him to invade Quwait, Quwait was slant-drilling into Iraq, and other stories redacted from US airwaves) Saddam Accepted the American Ultimatum.