Life sucks, and then we die

[real_idealist]

HOW THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE IN A GOD
WHO SUPPOSEDLY "LOVES US" YET ALLOWS ALL THIS MISERY!?!?!
Lets face it, were all just like a big reality tv show for god to laugh at! Well, fuck you very much!

*Edit* Please, please, no more comments. Im done. Fin, Fine, Finito.

Comments

[nightshade057]

You say that as if you've only just discovered that there is evil and suffering in the world. Even if it has just dawned on you, it's not a new thing. And, the Judeo-Christian tradition takes it into account. If you wanted the answers, you would find them and accept them. But it is much easier to protest angrily about how "terribly unfair" it all is.

This despite the fact that there are many that are much worse off than you or I or probably anyone that you know personally. Despite the fact that there are many who willingly suffer BECAUSE they believe in a loving God. Why? Because they've looked at the data (revelation) and accepted it. But perhaps you just don't like the data? Is it really that you have good reasons for not believing it or is it rather that you don't like what it says because it's not the way you would have it be? In that case, what you are actually angry about is that you are not God and therefore that you can't make up your own rules and your own morality. That is precisely the origin of sin and therefore suffering: our pride. Because we think we have the answer, that our way is the best way, or our way of thinking or doing what makes us feel good is so much more important than the will of any 'god'. Do not be so naive as to think that you have a God's-eye-view of reality.

We are responsible for our own misery. We are responsible for global warming, we are responsible for international debt and poverty, we are responsible for the AIDS epidemic, we are responsible for our wars, we are responsible for the dissolution of marriage, we are responsible for "unwanted" pregnancies. If God were to have us on marionette strings and drag us back every time we strain toward ugliness and sin and "lesser" and deceptive goods, would you not then protest, as many do of our government, that God controls us too much? Your perception of God seems to think of Him as not much more than a really big invisible man in the sky. You lack an understanding of His "otherness", His infinite worth, and the fact that He is incomprehensible. You cannot presume that you can analyze God objectively as a psychologist analyzes a patient or for that matter pronounce judgement on his interactions with the world. You are but one person. You cannot move outside yourself. Therfeore, you cannot see the world as it really is. Neither all its ugliness or all its beauty. Do not assume either that the data given us through revelation is easy to comprehend. These are profound issues that must be grappled with. If you choose to cast aside what has been given us to sort out and understand then to what point and purpose are your complaints?

It is unwise, unless you are somehow sure that there is no God, to accuse Him of being Satan ("were all just like a big reality tv show...") and to address Him with profanity.

[negrita427]

thank you for responding joshfat you said in a more intelligent and reasoned way what I was feeling :)

[real_idealist]

I would first like to preface this by saying that I do not want to get into a huge theological discussion with you. That was not the purpous of this entry.

I was not saying this as some sudden revelation I had. I was writing in increasing frustration, and when that happens (for whatever the cause) I write about it here-in my personal journal- as a thereputic means of working through my problems.

And while I admire you for your faith more than you could know, I am not you, and not many people have your strength. It is not so unual to act out or say such things (use profanity). Sometimes I feel like you are selfrightous in your beliefs. You expect everyone to be able to have the self control and faith and religious knowledge that you do. Now this is probably not intentional on your part. But, just know, that I will never be the Catholic that you are. Therefore, I do not follow the set of beliefs as you do.

You say that we cause our own suffering. And for some part it is true. But are you saying that I caused my fibromyalia. My constant depression and suicial thoughts, and now my newly forming symtums such as: short term memory loss, sensivity to light, sound, and smells, chronic miragines, and now irritable bowel. The former leaving me doubled over in pain that most people my age will never know, twice a week for 24 hour perids. In and out of the bathroom two or more times and hour. So nausated I cant even drink, yet I am so dehidrated I am dizzy when walking. This illness has caused me to miss so many classes that now I have to work harder just to pass. One clas I even had to drop cause the proffessor was going to fail me merely for missing class. And now the meds I finally got for the IBS causes blurred vision, so that I am typing this holding my head over a foot from the screen. I couldnt study for my test as well as I wanted to cause I had to read the same sentence 5 times. And then it took me almost an hour to finish a 25 question multiple choice test. And now, just as I was feeling better from spending all day in bed yesterday, I went and had breakfast with a friend, only to have the pain come back yet again on my way back to my room. So now I sit here, in bed with my heating pad, barely able to read what Im writing and waiting, not being able to do anything, just waiting for the excrushation pain to start once again.

So, that is MY fault?! I am causing this misery for myself???

[noctrnalwolf]

well, from a non-christian, non-theological point of view:

good would be completely meaningless without bad. and no matter how bad it is, there is always so much to be thankful for.

[real_idealist]

I agree whole heartedly. I am not completely jaded and bitter (yet). I was just really upset when I wrote that.

Thank you.

[nightshade057]

I did not tell you not to use profanity. I was merely cautioning you against using it toward God. I recognize that this is your journal and you may do as you wish.

I am not strong. The strength I have does not come from me, and it is available to anyone who seeks it. I am not self-righteous. Being self-righteous is to be piously sure of one's own righteousness. If you've been reading my journal, you should not have a cause to think that way. I do not expect people to have the religious knowledge that I do. That is precisely why I work so hard at increasing my knowledge - because I know that many others do not possess it and I want to be able to assist, to teach, to comfort, and to defend (also, it strengthens my own faith). But knowledge does not equal righteousness. It only makes me more responsible for the sins I do commit. That is quite different from expecting people to exercise common sense. Self-control comes through practice. If one does not try to attain it, one will not attain it. If one does then it progressively becomes easier. The "God question" and the ethical dimensions and consequences of our actions are extremely important issues. What frustrates me is people's apathy and nonchalance toward them, as that is an injustice (and is it not natural to be offended by injustice?)

Being a Catholic is not about how much you know or how many books you have or how well you can defend your beliefs. It is a new way of being human in the light of the revelation of Christ through faith. It is about obedience and humility to Christ and his Church and it about is love. That is what being Catholic is about. I do not set myself up as a standard. It is God alone who judges people's hearts and the standard is unreachble: Christ. That is what mercy is for. What I expect people to do is to care about important issues and to do their best to live righteously. My faith and self control are negligible. They are nothing compared to what they ought to be. I don't compare you to myself and you shouldn't either.

I know that you are a an intelligent, sensitive, amazing, deep person. These issues frustrate you and you groan about them. But it doesn't seem that you are putting in the effort to resolve them internally. And you yourself have told me that for the time being you wish to leave these issues to the side because you want to "have fun".

I did not say that you personally have caused all the pain that affilcts you specifically. I said "we" referring to the human race. I gave you the more immediate and easily relatable concrete examples that came to mind. However, if one believes in Christian doctrine, then one will accept that our suffering is part of the curse wrought by sin whether in a direct or indirect manner.

No, you personally are not responsible for your fibromyalgia. I was not belittling your pain. I know you have suffered and continue to suffer alot and it pains me that you do. But do not forget that no matter how much you suffer, there will always be someone who is suffering a great deal more. As for short term memory loss, you might indeed be responsible for that, as that is a commonly recognized side-effect of smoking marijuana.

[real_idealist]

Im sorry for calling you self-rightous. It was not the right word. But by saying things like "However, if one believes in Christian doctrine, then one will accept that our suffering is part of the curse wrought by sin whether in a direct or indirect manner." and "The "God question" and the ethical dimensions and consequences of our actions are extremely important issues. What frustrates me is people's apathy and nonchalance toward them, as that is an injustice (and is it not natural to be offended by injustice?)" Makes it sound as if you believe that what you believe in is the the end all, be all. So many people do not agree with the things you believe. That does not make them wrong. I dont believe what you do, but I also do not think you are wrong. I know you do not discrimnate other religions, or more so people like me who are without religion. But I do get the feeling that you think me a horrible sinner who is going to hell, or at least purigory til the judgment day. And I know your answer will be something like "only god can judge us and decide our fate" While that may be true, it doesnt mean you are emensely dissapointed that everyone, especially those close to you are not christian.

I did work on self control. All through middle school and most of high school. If you remember correctly I was pretty innocent. I worked really hard for a long time, feeling guilty about everything I did. I torrtured myself because of the mixed feelings I had about many things. I finally realized that it was better to be true to myself, and do what felt right to me, instead of something someone told me was right. I have studied the religion a lot. Both from a Christian perspective and a historical one. And I have found one too many misconceptions and disturbing events. In my opinion, no one can truly prove there is a god, and while I mostly believe there is; I highly doubt most of the things the Catholic church teaches are not always correct.

And about the memory loss being tied to my pot smoking...Do NOT speak of things that you know NOTHING about. While, I do smoke pot, on occassion, it IS NOT what causes my memory loss. It is a lagitament symptom of fibromyalgia. That was an EXTREMELY insulting remark...that adds to the thought I spoke about above.

[noctrnalwolf]

well, if you believe in a religion, you believe it to be right, or the truth. and by definition, there can't be multiple truths because that's contradictory. you can't believe everyone's right because merely by choosing a belief, you're indirectly choosing it over other beliefs. and being true to yourself and doing what feels right can obviously only go so far, but who draws the line? the individual?

and while josh may not be right, sometimes I do worry about you drinking and smoking because you can't possibly know what it's doing to your neurotransmitters (it's doing something, regardless of how much or how little) or health. and you mention it fairly frequently, probably making it seem like it happens more often than it does.

[real_idealist]

I dont believe in a religion. And I, personally, believe truth is subjective. I dont believe everyone is right, its just all about opinion. We could get into a long philosophical disscusion, but its pointless. Maybe sometime in person. But here its too difficult.

I cant remember the last time I drank...I think I had one with my mom a couple weekends ago. And as for pot, each time Ive mentioned it is probably the same amount of times Ive done it. And while I appreciate your concern...I am far from out of control or an addict. It is not so unusual to drink or get high at our age. Not saying that people should do it, or that it is my reasoning. But it is my life and my choice. While, I know that drinking and smoking is not healthy for me, there are a ton of other things that are unhealthy as well. It seems they are finding more and more things that will eventually kill us. Were all dying, Im going to enjoy my time while I have it.

While I am going to school (or work during the summer), having dinner with my family, spending countless hours online, or going to the movies with friends, and ranting my many melodramas on here, you have no reason to worry.

[noctrnalwolf]

I'm not saying you are an addict, I'm saying it may be influencing your depression etc. or at the very least, not helping, no matter how little you do it. your prescription drugs will not work the same because they are (maybe not adversely, but nonetheless) interacting with a new chemical that affects your brain. instead of working or not working, they could be working in an unknown third way. they could also be rendered ineffective. no one can know unless you want your brain tested, but why risk it?

saying truth is subjective is like redefining truth. there either is a god or there isn't. he can't magically exist in the reality of some and not others. "Truth - That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence." Reality can be subjective, views can be subjective, perception can be subjective, but truth is, by philosophical definition, objective. if we are talking about mere facts...like whether I drank coffee or not, either I did or did not. I can't have had coffee to one person and not have had it to another. some people can think differently, but even if no one can know the truth, there is one correct event. same goes for any religious or philosophical conviction, whether we will ever know or not.

[real_idealist]

I love how you make all this inferences without one bit of research to back it up, or even warrent your notions. I have done research. I talk to my psychatrist and psychologist, and while they-of course- do not recomend the use of alchohol, they say it is not more harmful for me than anyone else. As long as I keep it moderate. Which I do. And if you are thinking back to when you and I used to drink...I drink even LESS than I did then. And youre not really one to talk about alchohol.

As for pot, both my psychatrist and psychologist say that it has the same affects on the brain as alcohol, but is better for me (and my depression) because it makes me happy and calm, with no depressive after affects of alchohol.

Also, my dad knows I smoke. And also told me hed rather I do that then drink. Cause he knows me and he knows both drugs.

[noctrnalwolf]

http://www.edc.org/hec/pubs/prev-updates/depression.html

I've done plenty of research and there has been plenty of research done on the subject. I've even taken courses on the subject, if that lends any credence. you have to take a singe doctor's advice with a grain of salt when it's in conflict with national research because you are paying them. and I hardly ever drink, maybe once this semester and that would like, be a single drink. the idea that pot and alcohol have the same effects is just scientifically inaccurate.

but if you don't want me to disagree, I don't have to.

[nightshade057]

:::And as for pot, each time Ive mentioned it is probably the same amount of times Ive done it::: liar

[real_idealist]

Seeing as you have to hide behind the facade of the "anonymous" title, your opinion holds no water. I havent had anyone post anonymously since about 10th grade...its just lame.

[nightshade057]

lame or not i still know for a fact that it is a lie to your livejournal. so that makes it a slap in the face, a blatent lie, to all those who read it, and from here on, i no longer read your livejournal and see honesty, only potential lies in every sentance. if you can't be honest about that one little thing, who knows what other lies you are capable of? sorry it came to this. we were on the road to being great friends. you yourself will know who i am as soon as i drop out of your personal life, too.

[real_idealist]

When I said that I had only smoked each time I mentioned it, I was talking to Anne. And I meant each time I had either mentioned it on livejournal or to her personally. I also said "probably" leaving room for mistakes.

Also, I never said my livejournal was without error. It is my place to write, not a place for people to know every aspect of my life. I can choose to keep certain things from certain people. I do not want everyone who reads this journal to know all of my business.

If this is such a big issue to you, why do you not tell me who you are? I understand not wanting to do it on livejournal for everyone to see, but at least tell me, personally who you are. You say we were on the road to being great friends...well I highly doubt any of my good friends would do this to me over something so silly. I did not lie. And no one but myself could know the true number of times I have smoked. Any of my true friends would come and talk to me about problems they have, instead of trying to humilate me over the internet. Also, my true friends, although they do not agree with certain things I do, do not "drop out of my life". Even Josh, who he and I disagree on many things, still loves me for me. So, if you cannot accept me, then we probably never were the kinds of friends you thought we were.

While your comments (especially your last one) have upset me, if you say we were beginning to become good friends, then I must value your opionion. Please contact me somehow so we can talk about this.