Annoying Breaking Bad Fans

[readishmael]

Why are there so many assholes watching Breaking Bad?  I guess, judging by the number of complaints both now and at this time last season about how slow everything is going, and how the show is choosing to focus on plotlines of no interest to the audience--because of course we all just want to see Walt (and maybe Jesse) cooking and being all badass

Comments

[mswyrr]

Honestly, even more than all the hate speech directed at Skyler, and even more than people's disgusting obsession so far this season with Anna Gunn's weight ("OMG, she put on like fifty pounds, it's so distracting, how unprofessional of her, she looks so gross." Ugh. Fuck you.)

I hate that so much. It's such a fucking double-standard, considering that the women on this show have always been billions of times more conventionally attractive than the men. As I mentioned over on TWOP, Dean Norris has looked like he's 9 months pregnant since the beginning of the series and nobody rants about how unprofessional he is for daring to look the way he does. Heck, why just talk about him? If people were as excruciatingly judgmental toward the bodies of men on this show as they are toward women, no one except perhaps Giancarlo Esposito (yum) would escape vicious condemnation

[mswyrr]

Also, taking the opportunity to say something I didn't feel comfortable adding over on the Walt & Jesse thread on TWOP. While I agree with what you said about how the writing seems critical of the narratives of masculinity characters like Hank and Walt have bought into, and that the writing of female characters is pretty damn good and respectful, the show itself is structurally sexist. It's a TV show about white men written by a white man, you know? In both cases, sexism plays its role in setting up what kind of characters are considered worthy of attention and what kind of creators are given primacy. For the past three seasons, as you mention, Gilligan has been far more interested in exploring masculinity and the different ways to be a man in the world than he is in women and the challenges they face.

In light of that, it simply wasn't a fair fight between Walt and Jane. She had to be fated for death, a mere plot point in the more important story between Walt and Jesse. She was a she so she had to be more dangerous, more out of

rambly insomniac continues rambling

[mswyrr]

The whole set-up of Walt being jealous of Hank and going on the ride-along would have to change, I guess? But that could be easily tweaked. The whole "doing it for my family" part would be another challenge, though, since a huge part of that is "breadwinner" culture combined with the fact that men literally make more money than women in general and single mothers in particular (women make 75% on the dollar, but single moms make around 50% less than men).

Huh. From the genderswap stuff I've seen in other fandoms, it seems like genre stories work better with it than litfic-y dramas like BB.

[readishmael]

Well, yeah, it's the fact that the show is structurally sexist that makes the backslash to "Open House" so upsetting to me. We needed that episode. We needed more like them, from the beginning. And we finally get it, and people are calling it the worst episode ever.

I think it's important to have shows that interrogate masculinity and critique it, especially in light of how many other shows about the modern "crisis" of masculinity are about the virtue or freedom of reclaiming some prior state and order. This one is not about that, though a lot of viewers seem to think it is, and so I'm glad it exists with Walt, a man, at the center. But it would be great if the same kind of show was possible with a woman, without it being like Weeds.

[mswyrr]

Well, yeah, it's the fact that the show is structurally sexist that makes the backslash to "Open House" so upsetting to me. We needed that episode. We needed more like them, from the beginning. And we finally get it, and people are calling it the worst episode ever.But partially they're getting the fanbase they've created by giving into the structural sexism. They've not only accepted the male lead/male creator default, but until now they haven't done much to work against it. As you said so well, they've placed female characters on their show in a position where they're going to be seen as mere unsympathetic obstacles. They've trained viewers how to see them as unimportant compared to Walt and Hank

[readishmael]

IMO, the masculine ideal of beauty is equally as stupid as the feminine, and I'd hate to see men be held to it as harshly as women are.

Yeah, I mean, it works to prove a point, but it's hardly the answer to the problem. It's certainly a direction I'm not willing to go in even for the sake of argument; it's too mean.

[mswyrr]

It is mean. When it's done to women, it's part of a culture that drives some girls and women to starve themselves to death. That's pretty damn mean. But when it's done to women, it's so normalized in our culture that it comes across as speaking home truths or something. You know, somebody just being honest and forthright and if only girl/woman x would just listen and starve herself everything would be all right! It's only when you direct the same scrutinizing gaze on men that its cruelty becomes obvious. So... yeah, I'm willing to do it.

[readishmael]

This comment comes across as rather defensive to me. I hope that my statement didn't come across as a criticism of you for being willing to engage in such a tactic, just as I hope your comment (especially the final bit) was not meant as a criticism of me for being unwilling to do it myself. Because, with respect, I am not a person to whom this point needs to be made, any more than I believe you to be a person in need of a reminder that body-shaming is gross no matter whom it's directed toward and that there is no victory to be had in trying to even the score or get revenge--because I know that was not your intention, or at least the bulk of it

[mswyrr]

Ah, okay! I did feel kind of like you were judging my behavior as not nice enough? Which I find hurtful because letting myself feel my anger and speak it is helpful to me sometimes.

But putting it in terms of respecting your space and keeping discourse out of it that you don't want here, I totally understand and respect that. I'm sorry for compounding the upsetting stuff for you with my own weird coping mechanisms. I didn't mean to, and now that I know it's hurtful to you I won't do it again. I'm cool with deleting those comments, if you'd like?

[readishmael]

I did feel kind of like you were judging my behavior as not nice enough? Which I find hurtful because letting myself feel my anger and speak it is helpful to me sometimes.

That was totally not my intention and I'm sorry it came across that way. I absolutely understand the value of anger not only as a coping mechanism but as a tool, and I am certainly not one to hold anyone to any obligation to be "nice" when it comes to issues of social justice.

Thank you very much for understanding and respecting my wishes. Don't worry about deleting the comments, though. I'd like the whole conversation to stay up.

[mswyrr]

Part of it is a petty revenge, I admit. Why shouldn't men have to feel what it's like to be us, verbally dismembered into arms, legs, chest, stomach, and face and each piece of you determined unworthy, disgusting, wrong, in need of violent surgery or violent diet? Just because you dare to be a living, organic creature rather than a plastic mannequin.

I really hate our culture.