Heroes and Heroines, Note II.
Yvain's commentary: By now, people are probably wondering, "wtf are you posting that stuff?"
The reason? Someone might find, amidst the jumble of notes and messes, something useful for fanfiction or other forms of writing. A single line of wisdom that might inspire them to do ... I don't know. Something.
Also, Indian mythology is officially my fourth favorite mythology system. After Arthurian, Chinese, and Norse.
Seriously. Giant Mecha of the Gods with CHAINSAW hands.
On another note: Wish I had the Gilgamesh lecture before writing Fate. Would have helped a whole lot more - and turns out I was dead on about most of the traits that made Gilgamesh, well, GILRUGAMESH.
fairywine might find it interesting that he is referred to as the King of Heroes in at least 4/6 tablets and indeed, was pretty much a prick that everyone loved anyways because he was that awesome.
Notes:
Five and twenty tales of the Genie: Stupid translation. Cannot get book wrong, but can miss the meaning.
(Commentary by professor - as he really disliked the translation.)
The ways in which the ancients ask the “important questions.” Contrasting ways in which those questions posed are then offered in reply.
GILRUGAMESH: 4700 year old (at least). The punchline: the conclusion of this text resolves to a humanistic eminence. That is to say, the resolution is not that there is a transcendent answer - no mystery to be found, (no holy grail. ):) What makes GILRUGAMESH still matter is that the “real purpose” is to live it - to be mortal.
- The religious would beg to differ - that there is a higher purpose.
- GILRUGAMESH would argue that there is no purpose.
Paradox of life: life is a gift. At every turn GILRUGAMESH reinforces two things: we are not animals, but we are not gods either.
- Not animal is due to ability to self-reflection. The idea that human beings are “in-between” reality. We are neither like the rest of the nature nor are we like those who are exempt from nature.
o Are we civilized rather than savage?
o What can we do about that?
o Is bash over head with stick good?
- The capacity of reason and self-consciousness.
o Conclusion of GILRUGAMESH: Life is not a quest. If you go for something that’s unreachable by humans, you’ve missed the point. It takes an great hero like GIRUGAMESH a lifetime to figure out.
o Humans cannot go beyond the universe. Purpose of life is to receive what is being offered.
o Legacy of GILRUGAMESH vs. Monotheism: Monotheism works to moralize human life. God exists, God gives you rules, man fulfill rules.
§ Turns us into transcendent keepers of the “divine,” so to speak.
§ Are we born to inquire into our nature?
· LONG ARGUMENT ABOUT INQUIRY.
o LONG INQUIRY ARGUMENT IS LONG.
o LONG COUNTERARGUMENT IS LONG.
o LONG INQUIRY ON THE STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES OF RELIGION IS REALLY LONG.
o Alas, the weakness of the modern scientists…
(in which I shall keep secret, as you know, science has NO weaknesses...)
o GILRUGAMESH do not have an IT! No question, no solution, nothing. :\
§ Why read GILRUGAMESH then?
India: Cosmos is really big. Roughly divided into these forces.
- Humans.
- Things that cut deals with humans (Gods)
- Things that (sorta) want to benefit humans (Gods)
- Things that want to eat you (“Demons”)
- Things that do not want to eat you but want to kill you/do not want to benefit you.
- Things that don’t really care.
Vedas: transactional. Key is to create an optimal/possible world that is governed by yajna, or sacrifice. “creating the boundaries of the sacred”. The boundaries define clear definitions - in and out.
- Sacredness is a relationship in a transactional universe.
- Age of asceticism: “power paradigm” for the KING. Hero-king achieves that power by taking the mortal life and taking it something else - refusing mortal and working their way into a FORCE OF NATURE.
o Cutting their own deals with the cosmos - pushing back against the circumstance and terms. Not a noble state of awareness. Hindu sages were NOT noble - not about anything except for oneself.
o No moral supremacy. Really a PURE POWER paradigm due to constantly cutting deals with the Gods.
o POWER! UNLIMITED POWAAAAAAAAAAR.
o Has discipline to hang in there and the indifference to not to care. If you don’t have what I want, why would I care?
o THIS POWER IS NOT HUMAN!
- GILRUGAMESH is not a story for young people about maturity or DEATH or KINGSHIP or anything.
o Hard lesson of aging. Not coming of age.
o NO MORTAL IS EXEMPT FROM DEEEEEEEEEATH.
o YOUR LIFE SUCKS.
o (Quite literally what was said in class.)
o GILRUGAMESH do not raise the issue of infamy or anything else.
§ Infamy isn’t something you want.
o THERE IS EVIL IN THE WORLD!
§ NO DUH. Why did you choose evil in the first place?
§ EVIL is a mistake rather than a state.
o Question is not “are you evil,” but “how evil are you?”
o So, since we’re all mortal anyways, how will you “live on?”
§ King Arthur!
o Not afraid of death but extinction.
§ Problem isn’t being dead but dying. Problem isn’t being mortal but not being remembered.
§ Heroic thing is not questing, it’s obtaining the answer (to immortality, which is “sorry, doesn’t work that way.)
o Success is that you fail unless you understand you do not have eternal life.
o The memory of you depends on your deeds.
o Two things to be connected:
§ Achievement and name.
§ Some achievements are remembered, but not named.
§ Example. There are 44 presents. Not everyone made it onto the money.
o Wisdom is a struggle with success and failure.
§ You don’t understand GILRUGAMESH until you have succeeded/failed enough yet. Get older!
§ Literally, you have to have time to experience successes and failures before you could UNDERSTAND.
§ A matter of behavior.
o Narcissism: When everyone sees you as how you see yourself, that’s narcissism. The preoccupation with how you see yourself. Vanity is an opportunity for transformation.
§ When there’s an opening between the way you see yourself and the way others see you, then vanity holds the prospect of transformation.
o GILRUGAMESH becomes a better king as he realizes that he has to step into vanity and out of narcissism due to Enkidu.
o GILRUGAMESH’s heroic moment
§ With whom do you collaborate?
§ Process of aging will in some way lead you to life’s true conclusion.
· Did you lead a life worth living?
The reason? Someone might find, amidst the jumble of notes and messes, something useful for fanfiction or other forms of writing. A single line of wisdom that might inspire them to do ... I don't know. Something.
Also, Indian mythology is officially my fourth favorite mythology system. After Arthurian, Chinese, and Norse.
Seriously. Giant Mecha of the Gods with CHAINSAW hands.
On another note: Wish I had the Gilgamesh lecture before writing Fate. Would have helped a whole lot more - and turns out I was dead on about most of the traits that made Gilgamesh, well, GILRUGAMESH.
fairywine might find it interesting that he is referred to as the King of Heroes in at least 4/6 tablets and indeed, was pretty much a prick that everyone loved anyways because he was that awesome.
Notes:
Five and twenty tales of the Genie: Stupid translation. Cannot get book wrong, but can miss the meaning.
(Commentary by professor - as he really disliked the translation.)
The ways in which the ancients ask the “important questions.” Contrasting ways in which those questions posed are then offered in reply.
GILRUGAMESH: 4700 year old (at least). The punchline: the conclusion of this text resolves to a humanistic eminence. That is to say, the resolution is not that there is a transcendent answer - no mystery to be found, (no holy grail. ):) What makes GILRUGAMESH still matter is that the “real purpose” is to live it - to be mortal.
- The religious would beg to differ - that there is a higher purpose.
- GILRUGAMESH would argue that there is no purpose.
Paradox of life: life is a gift. At every turn GILRUGAMESH reinforces two things: we are not animals, but we are not gods either.
- Not animal is due to ability to self-reflection. The idea that human beings are “in-between” reality. We are neither like the rest of the nature nor are we like those who are exempt from nature.
o Are we civilized rather than savage?
o What can we do about that?
o Is bash over head with stick good?
- The capacity of reason and self-consciousness.
o Conclusion of GILRUGAMESH: Life is not a quest. If you go for something that’s unreachable by humans, you’ve missed the point. It takes an great hero like GIRUGAMESH a lifetime to figure out.
o Humans cannot go beyond the universe. Purpose of life is to receive what is being offered.
o Legacy of GILRUGAMESH vs. Monotheism: Monotheism works to moralize human life. God exists, God gives you rules, man fulfill rules.
§ Turns us into transcendent keepers of the “divine,” so to speak.
§ Are we born to inquire into our nature?
· LONG ARGUMENT ABOUT INQUIRY.
o LONG INQUIRY ARGUMENT IS LONG.
o LONG COUNTERARGUMENT IS LONG.
o LONG INQUIRY ON THE STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES OF RELIGION IS REALLY LONG.
o Alas, the weakness of the modern scientists…
(in which I shall keep secret, as you know, science has NO weaknesses...)
o GILRUGAMESH do not have an IT! No question, no solution, nothing. :\
§ Why read GILRUGAMESH then?
India: Cosmos is really big. Roughly divided into these forces.
- Humans.
- Things that cut deals with humans (Gods)
- Things that (sorta) want to benefit humans (Gods)
- Things that want to eat you (“Demons”)
- Things that do not want to eat you but want to kill you/do not want to benefit you.
- Things that don’t really care.
Vedas: transactional. Key is to create an optimal/possible world that is governed by yajna, or sacrifice. “creating the boundaries of the sacred”. The boundaries define clear definitions - in and out.
- Sacredness is a relationship in a transactional universe.
- Age of asceticism: “power paradigm” for the KING. Hero-king achieves that power by taking the mortal life and taking it something else - refusing mortal and working their way into a FORCE OF NATURE.
o Cutting their own deals with the cosmos - pushing back against the circumstance and terms. Not a noble state of awareness. Hindu sages were NOT noble - not about anything except for oneself.
o No moral supremacy. Really a PURE POWER paradigm due to constantly cutting deals with the Gods.
o POWER! UNLIMITED POWAAAAAAAAAAR.
o Has discipline to hang in there and the indifference to not to care. If you don’t have what I want, why would I care?
o THIS POWER IS NOT HUMAN!
- GILRUGAMESH is not a story for young people about maturity or DEATH or KINGSHIP or anything.
o Hard lesson of aging. Not coming of age.
o NO MORTAL IS EXEMPT FROM DEEEEEEEEEATH.
o YOUR LIFE SUCKS.
o (Quite literally what was said in class.)
o GILRUGAMESH do not raise the issue of infamy or anything else.
§ Infamy isn’t something you want.
o THERE IS EVIL IN THE WORLD!
§ NO DUH. Why did you choose evil in the first place?
§ EVIL is a mistake rather than a state.
o Question is not “are you evil,” but “how evil are you?”
o So, since we’re all mortal anyways, how will you “live on?”
§ King Arthur!
o Not afraid of death but extinction.
§ Problem isn’t being dead but dying. Problem isn’t being mortal but not being remembered.
§ Heroic thing is not questing, it’s obtaining the answer (to immortality, which is “sorry, doesn’t work that way.)
o Success is that you fail unless you understand you do not have eternal life.
o The memory of you depends on your deeds.
o Two things to be connected:
§ Achievement and name.
§ Some achievements are remembered, but not named.
§ Example. There are 44 presents. Not everyone made it onto the money.
o Wisdom is a struggle with success and failure.
§ You don’t understand GILRUGAMESH until you have succeeded/failed enough yet. Get older!
§ Literally, you have to have time to experience successes and failures before you could UNDERSTAND.
§ A matter of behavior.
o Narcissism: When everyone sees you as how you see yourself, that’s narcissism. The preoccupation with how you see yourself. Vanity is an opportunity for transformation.
§ When there’s an opening between the way you see yourself and the way others see you, then vanity holds the prospect of transformation.
o GILRUGAMESH becomes a better king as he realizes that he has to step into vanity and out of narcissism due to Enkidu.
o GILRUGAMESH’s heroic moment
§ With whom do you collaborate?
§ Process of aging will in some way lead you to life’s true conclusion.
· Did you lead a life worth living?