"To JK Rowling, from Cho Chang"

[ravenstar84]

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I am going to spread this video like fiendfyre. Everything said in this poem sums up all the feelings I've had towards Cho Chang for the past decade that I couldn't/was too lazy to put into words. I almost got teary eyed at the end.

Comments

[summeriris]

I really don't want to get into a discussion about bigotry or anything but there is two points I'd like to mention.
1. Rowling didn't really write her books to please sensibilities in the US. The books are British and are very British.. I find the entire pre-occupation of how Rowling didn't take American sensibilities into account to be rather racist toward the British to be frank. It's like Rowling didn't have the right to write her books from a British point of veiw, she should have kept the American point of view front and centre..
2. Rowling wrote characters and not ethnic minorities. This might be racist I don't know, but she really didn't put a lot of different ethinic traits or even gender traits into her characters. There was that whole thing where Blaise Zambini was thought to be a white girl for the longest time. Cho Chang might have been born to Asian parents, but she is a British girl. She was not put into the books to have a British Chinese character in the books, she was a character who's surname just happened to be Chang who was there to serve a narrative function. Her ethnicity is of no more importance than Cedric's. For that matter what was Cedric's ethnic background? His father is described as having ruddy cheeks and brown hair but Cedric's mother could have been Asian, black, brown or sky blue pink with a tartan border given the population diversity of the magical population. Cedric was a described as a handsome boy and that was it. I find this scrutinizing of a character's ethnicity to be troubling. It's like saying the most important thing about a character is which ethnic group they decend from.
As for the young lady's poem, perhaps she is getting upset over a character who was no more Asian than I am, or a character who was half Asian, or some other part of the British magical population. What is important IMO is that she is British, not American. And perhaps that young lady should have kept that in mind when she wrote her poem. So perhaps the American readers of Harry Potter should stop being so bigotted to the Britishness of the books, because that is what it seems to me you are being.

[ravenstar84]

Rachel Rostad's poem had a few inaccuracies here and there, which have already been discussed to no end on other places on the internet. But the racism she describes isn't just rooted from the U.S., nor has this been the only time Western Literature as whole been guilty of reinforcing racist stereotypes. And Britian's own history of colonization (e.g. parts of Asia, the US), has contributed to the stereotypes and depictions of Asians (in this case, specifically East Asians) and how white westerners look upon us.

I know that as an American I'm ignorant of many things around the world, but this isn't one of them. Especially when the things the poet addresses are no where near just a U.S. thing. There are Asians in both the UK and even Australia who are able to relate to Rostad's poem for the same reasons I do.

[summeriris]

Ok, there's a little bit of racsim right there. Australia is not the UK. It is a different country all together. Like the US, Australia has it's base in the expansion of the British Empire, but that has been left far behind. Lumping the two countries together as if they are the same is being racist.
Anybody can find something to relate to in her poem, we have all encountered discrimination in our lives and no I'm not saying it is right. But this young lady is attacking a book that is not set in her country for things that are happening in her country. Until she has lived in the UK and eperienced discrimination like she has described, in the UK, she should limit her complaints to what she knows has happened. And what is her complaint...that Rowling didn't write one of her Asian characters as Asian enough? Perhaps she didn't, but she did write her magical enough. And that was the point, Cho Chang whatever country her ancestors were from, was magical first, and British second, Cho Chang's name wasn't authentically Chinese and it was a Korean name. At no time in the book is Cho refered to as Chinese, it is a little presumtive to called her that and then complain about the name. Perhaps her first name was Shona and it got shortened to Cho. Shona is Gaelic The actress who played her is actually Scottish. You don't realise how insulting this is to the British people, do you? We are not perfect, but neither are we the worst and we are very conscious of our colonial past. Scotland is one of the most liberal countries in the world and I am proud to be Scottish. If this young lady wants to learn about stereotypes and how to offend a country and it's people, she should watch 'Made Of Honour'. Now that is offensive. If you are Scottish that film would give you the right to get on YouTube and rant about bigotry and how you are seen by the everyday American.

[ravenstar84]

Where did I lump the Australia and UK together? I was speaking distinctly about how Asians from both the UK and Australia are able to relate to the poem the same way I do as an Asian American because of our experiences being raised in white dominated countries. My entire last reply to you elaborates on that. If you think that's lumping the countries together, I don't know how else to explain this to you.

"Anybody can find something to relate to in her poem, we have all encountered discrimination in our lives and no I'm not saying it is right. But this young lady is attacking a book that is not set in her country for things that are happening in her country."

You need to re-read my last reply to you. Once again, the stereotypes of Asians she describes weren't just created in America nor do they only occur in America. If you don't believe me, that's your choice. You are claiming I and the poet are ignorant because we're American, but you've proven you know nothing about the Asian diaspora around the world.

[summeriris]

You lumped the two countries together when you posted this:

"There are Asians in both the UK and even Australia who are able to relate to Rostad's poem for the same reasons I do. "

I have never disagreed with you on the subjectracismsism. As a full blooded Gypsy I have encountered it. But I do not attack JK Rowling because she didn't write Gypsies the way I wanted her to. I don't attack her because she didn't write a Gypsy into the book at all.. This young girl and you have got upset because Rowling wrote a character who's last name is Chang and she didn't write her the way you wanted. That is the sum total of your complaint. The character might have been Chinese, she might not have been, but you didn't like how she was written. You then proceed to lump every Asian woman into ycomplaintlint and say that the portrayalracistcist and Rowling was beracistcist. All you know for sure is that Asians where you live have encounteracismsism. You don;t know if Asians in UKe Uk are discriminated against or not. And what happens in Australia is not what happens in the UK. You don't even realise that you are insulting an entire country because a character in a book is not written the way you want it to be. All I know is that I treat every fellow Scottish person I know with respect and that respect does not depend on the colour of their skin or which country their grandparents were born in. Just once I would like to see you acknowledge that the Harry Potter world is not American High School and that you respect the Britishness of the books.

You talk stereotypesotypes you don't seem to understand that you are falling into stereotyAmericanericna behaviour where the entire world has no right to be different from the USA. I found the lady'sadiy'soffenciveensive, I found your words about the poem offenciveensive. I foundoffenciveensive because I did not read one word about how the author is a British woman and maybe her experience of the world was different from yours.. What was it about Madame Butterfly, how weak and helpless she was? That wasn't because she was Asian...it was because Puccini's heroines were all helpless women and the colour of their skin didn't matter to him. . Was Madame Butterfly only interesting because she was Asian? Did you even look at the women in his other operas?. Madame Butterfly was a lot stronger than Mimi but maybe Mimi wasn't worth a look because she was French..

Reply

[ravenstar84]

"You lumped the two countries together when you posted this:

"There are Asians in both the UK and even Australia who are able to relate to Rostad's poem for the same reasons I do. ""

"You don;t know if Asians in UKe Uk are discriminated against or not. And what happens in Australia is not what happens in the UK."

Have you actually talked to or encountered postings from Asians from the UK, Australia, or any other white dominate country who talked about their experiences with racism? Because I have. Some of them I've communicated with personally from COS, Livejournal, and other parts of the internet outside of HP fandom. And many of the things we have in common are the racism we experience in our respected countries. A few of them even had the same complaints said in Rostad's poem about Cho. That's where my knowledge of racism against Asians around the world comes from. Once again, you are ignorant of the Asian diaspora around the world. And once again, it's up to you if you want to believe me or not.

[summeriris]

"Have you actually talked to or encountered postings from Asians from the UK"

What kind of question is that?

Of course I have. I have a close friend who's parents come from Hong Kong. She is married to Martin and they have a little girl. I worked with another girl Jane. She is now a physiotherapist. She really was too smart to be a shop girl. Her father was Japanese. Then there is John (mother Chinese, father Scottish) and Rachsid. Rachsid and I discuss Indian poetry. I had an a boyfriend from Iran, He wanted to get married but my father was very ill and I couldn't leave Scotland. He went to the States and we lost touch. My cousin Anne's husband comes from the Punjab. He and Anne are very good friends, but I don't care for their son. I think he is a user. My priest is Pakistani, I mean that, he hails from Pakistan. I have black firends, white friends. Friends from Poland and Israel. I don't like saying that I have Asian friends, it is such a cliche. I have friends who happen to have Asian ancestry.

I really don't want to argue with you Ravenstar. I understand bigotry and discrimnation. All I really want to say is...don't fall into the trap yourself. Just like you can be offended, you can cause offense.

[ravenstar84]

"What kind of question is that?"

It's the kind of question you ask someone who's trying to claim you know nothing of the diaspora of the people who you share similar life experiences with racially as if they know better than you.

I did not need to know all the details of your friend's hobbies or your dating history. You're doing a good job arguing with me already over something you think I would know nothing about because I'm American. And its even more offensive considering you're not Asian and trying to lecture me on what I should consider racist about my own people when quite a few of us from around the world have complained about the same things

[summeriris]

I see. It's all right for you to complain about things you have heard second hand, but I am being unfair when I say that I am offended by what I hear and read first hand. So in essense it is impossible for me to be offended because my eyes are a different shape than yours and my skin a different colour. That an interesting way to look at discrimination and bigotry. Only other people have it.

[ravenstar84]

You're the one who's convinced that by me saying other Asians from other white dominate countries have shared similar experiences with me is the same as me lumping all these countries together, when it's no where near the same. You're convinced that because people like me and Rostad are American, we can't criticize a British white woman, all the while dismissing what we consider racist even though I've repeatedly said that I and other Asians from around the world have shared similar experiences with racism and our criticisms for JKR. I've tried explaining that these stereotypes don't just exists in the U.S., but you're becoming just as bad as Snapefen when it comes to misconstruing my posts.

Let me also clarify that I do understand Americans have a tendency to be very pig headed and very self-centered when it come to issues around the world. I'm also aware that racial stereotypes and how race itself is categorized can be different than the U.S. But some of the things Rostad mentions in her poem are things that have also been discussed in fandom from not only Asians, but other POC's from around the world. Some of us even tried to start a forum on COS to talk about how race and ethnic minorities were presented in the books, but for some reason it was regarded as a taboo subject. In a way, some elements of Rostad's poem aren't anything new. Just her delivery.

[summeriris]

No Raven, I am offended by your failure to realise that the UK is not the USA. I am offended by your failure to realise that not every person with a white skin is walking around with an agenda to persecute people of colour. I am offended by your attitude, and your arrogance. You are not always in the right, and just because my skin is sort of white, that does not make me always in the wrong. You offended me, Ronstad offended me. You insulted my country and you don't even have the manners to say you are sorry.

[ravenstar84]

"No Raven, I am offended by your failure to realise that the UK is not the USA."

*HEAD DESK*

Can anyone who is reading this thread tell me what's going on, because I am completely lost.

[summeriris]

I'm not surprised.
I think we must agree to disagree. I don't think that Rowling had American sensibilities first and foremost in her mind when she wrote Cho's character, I don't think she was following on in the trail blazed by Puccinni, and I don't thnk her purpose in writing Cho's character was to be racist consciously or unconsciously. I think Ms Ronstad and yourself are looking for something to be offended by and Rowling gets it in the neck for crimes that are not her's. And I thought you were discriminating against British culture. You took offense, I took offense and I think it is better to simply leave it be.

[ravenstar84]

So you still think the things Rostad and I agree on are just from an American standpoint, when I've repeatedly said that other Asians from other parts of the world have voiced similar complaints about Cho's character the book's depiction of it's POC characters. Okay.

[summeriris]

There are many Asians and many different types of Asians. Young Ms Ronsard has already stated that she is not speaking for every Asian out there, and Raven...neither do you. But like I said I'll leave it at that. I would however if I were you try not to offend people with unconcious discrimnation. And you did.

[ravenstar84]

"There are many Asians and many different types of Asians."

I am aware of that, and I don't claim to speak for every Asian either. I know better than that. I'm also aware of the Asians who didn't agree with everything Rostad said, and there were quite a few for a number of reasons.

What does that have to do with what I've been trying to point out to you? What does that have to do with the Asians around the world I've talked with in and outside of fandom who share the same concerns as I and Rostad who you seem to think don't exist?