" being in the UK I've never been in the oppressor position" Forgive me if I express this badly, but I rather doubt that- as a white historical oppressee person, I'd think you'd be more piggy-in-the-middle? I see that a lot too- being of Polish and Irish (and German) descent in the US, seems there are two ways people usually go- refuse to accept bullying or discrimination, or turn around and do the same to the next in line. The more or less privileged whites are positively frothing at the newer immigrants- especially in the south- As they become citizens, you get to watch the "American owned" signs on businesses turn to "American-born owned"! Makes me want to thump them all roundly and give them to the Kickapoo. Of course, there's the whole Hispanic thing too- "Mexicans" tend to be at least part native themselves, so that agenda is just more painfully ironic. "grammar and syntax - my favourite is the personal forms of prepositions" GAH!! I began learning with the radio program- remember that one, mid 80's? Started beating my head on the counter when I realized all the "endings" came at the *beginning* of words, so you couldn't even look them up (my default strategy- I've got pretty good aural memory, but it's trained to catch beginnings, not middles:( From there it just got more depressing. "I tend to avoid the word "Welsh" when I can" I get that and will try to remember, but..My own preference is more of a "Take back the night" philosophy- I tell Polack jokes and use non-pC terms by design, just because derogatory terms bloody well shouldn't have power, so I won't give them any.
Just out of curiousity, where were you born? and ummm.. tl dr?? means I'm babbling way too much????
In the middle of what? The last time we had the chance to oppress anybody it was other Brits over two thousand years ago. And all the immigrants we've come in contact with have been bullying us - first the Romans, then the Saxons, then the Normans, and then and for ever after (once the Normans and Saxons became integrated) the English. We've had an awkward relationship with the Irish starting with them raiding and invading us and carrying us off as slaves (e.g. St Patrick). There really hasn't been anybody under us.
I never encountered that way of learning Welsh; the only sane way is to learn the grammar properly as you go along. I was taught when I was studying linguistics how to analyse the grammar of a language from utterances, which is how I encountered Ancient Egyptian, but it's a bad thing to throw at someone who doesn't have the training. I learned mostly from a series of books called "Dysgu Cymraeg" in the 1970s; but I already had the mutations in my head, mostly from the amount of Welsh in Wenglish.
"Polack jokes" is not really a concept in the UK, though I understand it roughly equates to "Irish jokes"; the Poles we had in my younger days were descendants of people who fought here during WWII or escaped here afterwards so the associations were mostly courageous and totally mad. Moderately typical was my best friend at school, whose father played a major part in the Warsaw uprising at the end of WWII (and to whom I am obliged for knowing how to make a Molotov cocktail)
Born in Swansea. You haven't met tl dr yet? Sometimes written as a joke as "teal deer" - "too long, didn't read", typically used to introduce a very short summary of a long waffle.
in the middle of white people vs new immigrants from the colonies! the first British EFL book I was given to teach from included at least three chapters of grammar/vocab based on conversations that taught interested students how and why to insult Pakis in colloquial English.
It's a horrible method but popular, because it gets good coverage- the reservations are fond of broadcasting a phrase a day to keep native languages alive because BIA schools still fail to acknowlege or teach them, and our own Big Joe on the Shoshone Arapaho res has some pretty interesting memnomics to go with..;D Yes, so many Polish immigrants tended to cling less to the cultural ghettos of the eastern cities than other groups did is the best explanation I can find. They spread out while they still spoke so little English they became a national joke. Some of Polish descent find them very offensive, but I have a different philosophy (also, my Dad loves to tell them, since he's the only non-Polack in a family full of smart-mouthed near geniuses. ;) But I've made quite a collection of cross cultural "Polack" jokes- the French tell them about the Belgians, the Arabs about the Bedu, minnesotans tell them about Swedes (Ole and Lena jokes have a special place, because they're always done in the accent too;)etc. Ah- when I've encountered tl dr, it's usually a literal response to something long;P I rather like your short hand which I usually see written as (insert rant here).
I guessed that a particular British comic had worked in France when he told a classic type Belgian joke:
"I love Belgian audiences. They laugh when you tell a joke. They laugh again when you explain it to them. And they laugh again two days later when they get it."
When I was at the French school in South Kensington, one year there was a lot of heart-searching in the French families: the joint winners of the Prix d'Excellence were me - and a Belgian boy.
Within England, the butt of jokes are people from the Black Country, "Enoch and Eli" (or rather "Aynock and Aylie"), based partly on stupidity and partly on misunderstanding arising from the thick Midlands accent. It's probably the only reginal accent that is never cool.
It's probably Bishop Morgan's Bible that kept Welsh alive despite all the attempts to wipe it out. The recent change in policy came very fast - when my mother was at school, children were still punished for speaking Welsh; by the time she started teaching, it was a compulsory subject at school.
Forgive me if I express this badly, but I rather doubt that- as a white historical oppressee person, I'd think you'd be more piggy-in-the-middle?
I see that a lot too- being of Polish and Irish (and German) descent in the US, seems there are two ways people usually go- refuse to accept bullying or discrimination, or turn around and do the same to the next in line. The more or less privileged whites are positively frothing at the newer immigrants- especially in the south- As they become citizens, you get to watch the "American owned" signs on businesses turn to "American-born owned"!
Makes me want to thump them all roundly and give them to the Kickapoo.
Of course, there's the whole Hispanic thing too- "Mexicans" tend to be at least part native themselves, so that agenda is just more painfully ironic.
"grammar and syntax - my favourite is the personal forms of prepositions"
GAH!! I began learning with the radio program- remember that one, mid 80's? Started beating my head on the counter when I realized all the "endings" came at the *beginning* of words, so you couldn't even look them up (my default strategy- I've got pretty good aural memory, but it's trained to catch beginnings, not middles:( From there it just got more depressing.
"I tend to avoid the word "Welsh" when I can"
I get that and will try to remember, but..My own preference is more of a "Take back the night" philosophy- I tell Polack jokes and use non-pC terms by design, just because derogatory terms bloody well shouldn't have power, so I won't give them any.
Just out of curiousity, where were you born? and ummm..
tl dr?? means I'm babbling way too much????
Reply
I never encountered that way of learning Welsh; the only sane way is to learn the grammar properly as you go along. I was taught when I was studying linguistics how to analyse the grammar of a language from utterances, which is how I encountered Ancient Egyptian, but it's a bad thing to throw at someone who doesn't have the training. I learned mostly from a series of books called "Dysgu Cymraeg" in the 1970s; but I already had the mutations in my head, mostly from the amount of Welsh in Wenglish.
"Polack jokes" is not really a concept in the UK, though I understand it roughly equates to "Irish jokes"; the Poles we had in my younger days were descendants of people who fought here during WWII or escaped here afterwards so the associations were mostly courageous and totally mad. Moderately typical was my best friend at school, whose father played a major part in the Warsaw uprising at the end of WWII (and to whom I am obliged for knowing how to make a Molotov cocktail)
Born in Swansea. You haven't met tl dr yet? Sometimes written as a joke as "teal deer" - "too long, didn't read", typically used to introduce a very short summary of a long waffle.
Reply
the first British EFL book I was given to teach from included at least three chapters of grammar/vocab based on conversations that taught interested students how and why to insult Pakis in colloquial English.
It's a horrible method but popular, because it gets good coverage- the reservations are fond of broadcasting a phrase a day to keep native languages alive because BIA schools still fail to acknowlege or teach them, and our own Big Joe on the Shoshone Arapaho res has some pretty interesting memnomics to go with..;D
Yes, so many Polish immigrants tended to cling less to the cultural ghettos of the eastern cities than other groups did is the best explanation I can find. They spread out while they still spoke so little English they became a national joke. Some of Polish descent find them very offensive, but I have a different philosophy (also, my Dad loves to tell them, since he's the only non-Polack in a family full of smart-mouthed near geniuses. ;)
But I've made quite a collection of cross cultural "Polack" jokes- the French tell them about the Belgians, the Arabs about the Bedu, minnesotans tell them about Swedes (Ole and Lena jokes have a special place, because they're always done in the accent too;)etc.
Ah- when I've encountered tl dr, it's usually a literal response to something long;P I rather like your short hand which I usually see written as (insert rant here).
Reply
"I love Belgian audiences. They laugh when you tell a joke. They laugh again when you explain it to them. And they laugh again two days later when they get it."
When I was at the French school in South Kensington, one year there was a lot of heart-searching in the French families: the joint winners of the Prix d'Excellence were me - and a Belgian boy.
Within England, the butt of jokes are people from the Black Country, "Enoch and Eli" (or rather "Aynock and Aylie"), based partly on stupidity and partly on misunderstanding arising from the thick Midlands accent. It's probably the only reginal accent that is never cool.
It's probably Bishop Morgan's Bible that kept Welsh alive despite all the attempts to wipe it out. The recent change in policy came very fast - when my mother was at school, children were still punished for speaking Welsh; by the time she started teaching, it was a compulsory subject at school.
Reply
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