When fandom and privilege meet!
BOLDING THIS WHOLE IDIOTIC COMMENT. NOT CUTTING IT. COME AT ME.
AND THE RED IS ME.
mary_j_59 (Snapefen and Snapedom darling): "Another thought about Lily - this one is completely random. Lily, like Hermione, is a bright and talented Muggleborn, and a lot of people have attacked us here because they identify with her and consider Severus a lifelong racist.
Of course, he's not. It's canon that he changes. But-
I [A WHITE WOMAN BTW!] am starting to wonder why bright young women of color would identify with Lily. After all, her situation is not at all like theirs. They may well suffer low-level prejudice everywhere they go. Anyone can tell, by looking at another person, whether they are primarily of European, Asian, or African descent. And far too many people make judgements about others based on their ancestry. I can completely understand why these fans get outraged by young Sev's yelling "Mudblood" if they equate it with the "n" word.
But - it's really not equivalent. And Lily's situation is not in the least like theirs. She suffers no prejudice in the WW at large - yes, there is a fair-sized group whose leader wants to oppress Muggleborns, but, for most of her life, that group is not in power. No one can tell, by looking at her, whether she is Muggleborn or not. She is pretty, popular, talented, and apparently near the top of her class, at least in Potions. She would seem, as a girl, to have several friends, and not one, but at least two, bright and talented boys are after her. Her Potions professor loves her, and, since she becomes a prefect and is Head Girl, her other professors must think well of her. In short, she does not suffer from constant, low-level prejudice wherever she goes. On the contrary, she seems quite privileged, happy, and sure of her place in the Wizarding World. She's a queen bee.
So I really, really, don't see why those young women identify with her so strongly, while failing to identify with Sev or any other character with Muggle (not Muggleborn) descent.
That's my random thought. I realize it doesn't have much to do with the original question, but I'd be curious to know what others think of this dichotomy. Lily seems to be a very contradictory character, no matter how you look at her."
I'm not censoring myself here so what you see is what you get:
Dear mary_j_59
Just a few things:
1) You and all your like minded well-meaning (or not so well-meaning) white women need to listen up: you have ZERO, AND I MEAN ZERO PLACE TO A) CREATE NON-EXISTENT LEVELS OF PREJUDICE. PREJUDICE IS PREJUDICE, PERIOD. God, this is like when people act like racism isn't "real" racism unless there is a lynching. NO. B) Question why "bright" (WTF DO YOU EVEN MEAN INSERTING THAT IN?) women of color identify with lily as a person who has suffered from bullshit prejudice.
2) WHERE THERE IS A HIERARCHY, THERE IS PREJUDICE. There IS a hierarchy in the wizarding world, and whoever is at the bottom faced some form of discrimination or prejudice. The fact that there are people who think that muggleborns are inferior to the point of supporting mass murder IS FUCKED UP, EVEN IF THEY AREN'T "IN POWER" IN THE SENSE OF "MINISTER FOR MAGIC". For example, look at the fact that a bigot like Malfoy had a position on some...board of whatever. That maintains a lot of fucking power, regardless. When people like that have influence in the way shit is run, THAT IS PROBLEMATIC. The hierarchy exists regardless. And on that note...
3) Academic/social success doesn't mean that you automatically don't really experience oppression or have privilege. For example, I guess it's easy for people to overlook the part in HBP when Slughorn flat out said that he was impressed with Lily's prowess in potions for a Muggle-born. The assumption that magical prowess depends on your position in the wizarding world hierarchy is NOT SOMETHING PULLED OUT OF ONE'S ASS. IT'S RIGHT THERE IN BLACK AND WHITE. I love how success academically and socially, apparently to you, means you can shut the fuck up about experiencing prejudice. "Popular? You have nothing to complain about, of course! LOOK AT HOW MANY FRIENDS YOU HAVE, AFTERALL. INSTA-PRIVILEGE!" Bullshit.
4) "Lily seems to be a very contradictory character, no matter how you look at her."
So lemme get this straight: academic and social success/popularity is contradictory because...that's not something that happens to people in minority groups? Or is this just the same ol' LOLZ LILY IS SUCH A CONTRADICTION CUZ SHE HATED JAMES AND THEN LIKED HIM AND JUNK~
I identify and empathize with Lily because of a lot of things, reasons which will be detailed more in a future essay. A lot of this DOES have to do with being a bright person of color. And I don't give a flying FUCK if well meaning liberal white fandom idiots don't fucking get it. Frankly, people like you don't WANT to get it and you never will anyway.
And I'm not only angry at this bullshit because this involves shit about my favorite character in the series. No, this goes further than that because all this implies that you have similar opinions about rl racism and prejudice. The fact that you're segmenting prejudice alone is really fucking telling. So yeah, you and your ilk really have very little authority on how or why some women of color-a few I know very very well in this fandom-think the way we do.
So please, either stop talking about stuff you don't understand or open your goddamn mind.
No ♥,
Ashley
ETA: BTW, inspiration from this post is all due to ravenstar84's original post about this clusterfuck of fail here.
You can link this rant if you want too. IDGAF, let her/anybody read it. People need to get schooled.
ETA 2: ORIGINAL FAIL HERE. ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK.
ETA 3: Also loving how she said that Mudblood isn't a fair rl equivalent to Nigger. Obvs they're not the same thing because one is a fucking made up word in a totally diff context, but the general intent behind it and other offensive epithets like it is the same. Not only do I wish people would stop downplaying Mudblood as an insult in the series.
ETA 4: OMG ONE OF THESE FUCKERS SRSLY STARTED TALKING ABOUT EMMIT TILL BEING MACHO AND POPULAR AND WHISTLING AT A PO PO WHITE WOMAN.
THESE PEOPLE ARE UNBELIEVABLE AND I LOVE OTHERS CALLING THEM OUT AS WELL.
AND THE RED IS ME.
mary_j_59 (Snapefen and Snapedom darling): "Another thought about Lily - this one is completely random. Lily, like Hermione, is a bright and talented Muggleborn, and a lot of people have attacked us here because they identify with her and consider Severus a lifelong racist.
Of course, he's not. It's canon that he changes. But-
I [A WHITE WOMAN BTW!] am starting to wonder why bright young women of color would identify with Lily. After all, her situation is not at all like theirs. They may well suffer low-level prejudice everywhere they go. Anyone can tell, by looking at another person, whether they are primarily of European, Asian, or African descent. And far too many people make judgements about others based on their ancestry. I can completely understand why these fans get outraged by young Sev's yelling "Mudblood" if they equate it with the "n" word.
But - it's really not equivalent. And Lily's situation is not in the least like theirs. She suffers no prejudice in the WW at large - yes, there is a fair-sized group whose leader wants to oppress Muggleborns, but, for most of her life, that group is not in power. No one can tell, by looking at her, whether she is Muggleborn or not. She is pretty, popular, talented, and apparently near the top of her class, at least in Potions. She would seem, as a girl, to have several friends, and not one, but at least two, bright and talented boys are after her. Her Potions professor loves her, and, since she becomes a prefect and is Head Girl, her other professors must think well of her. In short, she does not suffer from constant, low-level prejudice wherever she goes. On the contrary, she seems quite privileged, happy, and sure of her place in the Wizarding World. She's a queen bee.
So I really, really, don't see why those young women identify with her so strongly, while failing to identify with Sev or any other character with Muggle (not Muggleborn) descent.
That's my random thought. I realize it doesn't have much to do with the original question, but I'd be curious to know what others think of this dichotomy. Lily seems to be a very contradictory character, no matter how you look at her."
I'm not censoring myself here so what you see is what you get:
Dear mary_j_59
Just a few things:
1) You and all your like minded well-meaning (or not so well-meaning) white women need to listen up: you have ZERO, AND I MEAN ZERO PLACE TO A) CREATE NON-EXISTENT LEVELS OF PREJUDICE. PREJUDICE IS PREJUDICE, PERIOD. God, this is like when people act like racism isn't "real" racism unless there is a lynching. NO. B) Question why "bright" (WTF DO YOU EVEN MEAN INSERTING THAT IN?) women of color identify with lily as a person who has suffered from bullshit prejudice.
2) WHERE THERE IS A HIERARCHY, THERE IS PREJUDICE. There IS a hierarchy in the wizarding world, and whoever is at the bottom faced some form of discrimination or prejudice. The fact that there are people who think that muggleborns are inferior to the point of supporting mass murder IS FUCKED UP, EVEN IF THEY AREN'T "IN POWER" IN THE SENSE OF "MINISTER FOR MAGIC". For example, look at the fact that a bigot like Malfoy had a position on some...board of whatever. That maintains a lot of fucking power, regardless. When people like that have influence in the way shit is run, THAT IS PROBLEMATIC. The hierarchy exists regardless. And on that note...
3) Academic/social success doesn't mean that you automatically don't really experience oppression or have privilege. For example, I guess it's easy for people to overlook the part in HBP when Slughorn flat out said that he was impressed with Lily's prowess in potions for a Muggle-born. The assumption that magical prowess depends on your position in the wizarding world hierarchy is NOT SOMETHING PULLED OUT OF ONE'S ASS. IT'S RIGHT THERE IN BLACK AND WHITE. I love how success academically and socially, apparently to you, means you can shut the fuck up about experiencing prejudice. "Popular? You have nothing to complain about, of course! LOOK AT HOW MANY FRIENDS YOU HAVE, AFTERALL. INSTA-PRIVILEGE!" Bullshit.
4) "Lily seems to be a very contradictory character, no matter how you look at her."
So lemme get this straight: academic and social success/popularity is contradictory because...that's not something that happens to people in minority groups? Or is this just the same ol' LOLZ LILY IS SUCH A CONTRADICTION CUZ SHE HATED JAMES AND THEN LIKED HIM AND JUNK~
I identify and empathize with Lily because of a lot of things, reasons which will be detailed more in a future essay. A lot of this DOES have to do with being a bright person of color. And I don't give a flying FUCK if well meaning liberal white fandom idiots don't fucking get it. Frankly, people like you don't WANT to get it and you never will anyway.
And I'm not only angry at this bullshit because this involves shit about my favorite character in the series. No, this goes further than that because all this implies that you have similar opinions about rl racism and prejudice. The fact that you're segmenting prejudice alone is really fucking telling. So yeah, you and your ilk really have very little authority on how or why some women of color-a few I know very very well in this fandom-think the way we do.
So please, either stop talking about stuff you don't understand or open your goddamn mind.
No ♥,
Ashley
ETA: BTW, inspiration from this post is all due to ravenstar84's original post about this clusterfuck of fail here.
You can link this rant if you want too. IDGAF, let her/anybody read it. People need to get schooled.
ETA 2: ORIGINAL FAIL HERE. ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK.
ETA 3: Also loving how she said that Mudblood isn't a fair rl equivalent to Nigger. Obvs they're not the same thing because one is a fucking made up word in a totally diff context, but the general intent behind it and other offensive epithets like it is the same. Not only do I wish people would stop downplaying Mudblood as an insult in the series.
ETA 4: OMG ONE OF THESE FUCKERS SRSLY STARTED TALKING ABOUT EMMIT TILL BEING MACHO AND POPULAR AND WHISTLING AT A PO PO WHITE WOMAN.
THESE PEOPLE ARE UNBELIEVABLE AND I LOVE OTHERS CALLING THEM OUT AS WELL.