Busting out of the internet woodwork cause of the Ashes to Ashes finale.
I can't help myself, it cause a long and ridiculous rant of theories and speculation and more.
( Uh SPOILERS for ALL of Ashes to Ashes and Life on Mars. )
( Uh SPOILERS for ALL of Ashes to Ashes and Life on Mars. )
another reason to disagree with keats = devil: the letters on BBC's A2A website. even keats has to answer to a higher authority. his super, in the letters, was named nick callahan. on-screen, it's the bloke on the phone.
"old nick" - another name for the devil
"callahan" - bearer of light - lucifer - the devil's original name (he was a fallen angel)
yet another reason, though more roundabout: "you will give your power to a tiler." ~ the psychic to gene in 2x02. tiler = gatekeeper/doorkeeper. if anything, keats is closer to that. ditto for frank morgan.
non-police: gene's world is limbo. while it's not real, it has to keep up appearances of being real. so it draws in those of other professions to achieve that, as well as baddies. i think luigi fits the bill of professional sent to blend in (and be a confidante for alex). once he was not needed anymore, as everyone bar gene and keats would soon be joining nelson in the arms, he was free to go. sometimes others go there to work something out (sally the prostitute, the only non-copper to die in gene's arms).
ray is pegged as dying sometime in 1977. the furniture in his flat is very 70s, and a few others noted he seemed to be watching QE2's silver jubilee celebrations (royal connection), which took place between june 6 and 9, 1977, when he hanged himself. some thought he was watching the start of the FA cup final between liverpool and whoever at old wembley (also 1977).
chris is the only one whose time of death i can't pin down. i've heard 1960s, but i've also heard 1980s. when did manchester police et al stop using whistles?
And then [Shaz] gets a little shrill and I can't understand her.
she exclaims, "i've been dead all this time!" or something to that effect.
i still think there's something more to shaz. she saw the bowie clown and, after undergoing the event that killed her, went into a coma in the geniverse. just like alex would. of course, A2A is mostly from alex's POV, so she could've inserted the clown in her subconscious; but suppose shaz still saw him from her own POV? (mmm...fic fodder!)
...it seems more like [gene] would show up in 1953, same as he ever was, in uniform, but he's been there so long, he's aged and grown and made his way up through the ranks.
*nods* gene got all the way to DCI. chris made DC. ray went from DC to DS to DI. shaz also made DC. all post-mortem.
personally, i like to think gene aged as he naturally would have had he lived. i also believe he's the only one of all of them who didn't go back to a crucial time in his life (i think all the others underwent the same thing as sam and alex but acclimatized at a faster pace).
i don't think sam researched gene after returning to 2006/07. to sam, although it seemed real to him, he still believed it was in his head. no reason to research. not to mention he was going to go back anyway. i think he worked it out later. (seven years = seven seconds in 2007?)
who knows what was assumed since Gene's body isn't found until 2009 (2009? How long was Alex in her coma before she died? Although it's a question I don't expect an answer to).
still 2008. at the start of S2, alex had been missing for up to 13 hrs ("missing since 10 am"; clock on wall was at 11...i've always assumed pm, for whatever reason). during S2, she's found, rushed to hospital, receives CPR, undergoes surgery to remove the bullet, acquires an infection and receives the 50mls. let's say that all happens overnight. at the start of S3, at 9:06 am, alex breathes her last. at the end of S3, she dies. (in the prod. script for 1x01, she and layton go onto the barge at 9:05 am. she is shot at least a minute or so later. i like to think she died at least twenty-four hours after she was shot.)
annie... i do like the theory she's the woman in the red dress who ends up being murdered by her pseudo-future father-in-law. maybe she did have to face him again in order to be at peace. *nods*
i did notice the clock. *nods*
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That's true. Although there's been some argument that he could have just been writing letters and making phone calls in order to back up the DNC cover. Also, on the phone he calls the guy "Dave", which I read was Danny Mays improvising and they joked David Bowie was the devil, but I'd argue that even the guy on the phone is just another piece of the hierarchy.
ray is pegged as dying sometime in 1977. the furniture in his flat is very 70s, and a few others noted he seemed to be watching QE2's silver jubilee celebrations (royal connection), which took place between june 6 and 9, 1977, when he hanged himself. some thought he was watching the start of the FA cup final between liverpool and whoever at old wembley (also 1977).
That's awesome, thanks. I just am too American to have pegged that. ;)
chris is the only one whose time of death i can't pin down. i've heard 1960s, but i've also heard 1980s. when did manchester police et al stop using whistles?
That's a really good point, actually. So I googled police whistles and Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistle#Police_whistles) says that they generally fell into disuse around 1969, which backs up the 60s theory. Also I'd lean toward that, because even though Chris is more progressive than say Ray, a lot of that is due to the outside influences of Sam and Shaz. And also what kind of guy he is, but he's still pretty clueless without them.
i still think there's something more to shaz. she saw the bowie clown and, after undergoing the event that killed her, went into a coma in the geniverse. just like alex would.
Well Shaz is the only one of them to also be from the future, so that may have something to do with it. And she was always more attuned to these things, she's the first one to have her LOM moment. Definitely interesting though.
personally, i like to think gene aged as he naturally would have had he lived.
Agreed. Furthermore, especially rewatching the scene where he takes over the backup plans from Alex, he wouldn't have had the experience to run a department otherwise, which he clearly has. It WAS interesting to rewatch and see Alex refer to him as "immature" however. That's some serious foreshadowing right there.
(i think all the others underwent the same thing as sam and alex but acclimatized at a faster pace).
See I don't and here's why, frankly, because otherwise you'd have coppers showing up all disoriented every five minutes and nothing would ever get done. I think dead cops don't remember like coma cops do. As evidenced by Glenn Fletcher, who I have to imagine showed up in Manchester CID because he died in the real world.
to sam, although it seemed real to him, he still believed it was in his head. no reason to research.
Were I Sam Tyler, my curiosity would be insatiable. And at that point what was to say he wasn't in a coma AND back in time, for all he knew?
(seven years = seven seconds in 2007?) ... at the start of S3, at 9:06 am, alex breathes her last. at the end of S3, she dies.
The rest of the timing makes sense, but I don't necessary subscribe to the theory that the time in Gene's world is in the seconds as they die, since that would get way too confusing with all the other characters now factored in. Why would the Guv's seconds then be quite so long? Or Chris and Ray's? I think Sam died in the last episode of LOM and Alex died in the first episode of S3, and their time in cop purgatory was their own.
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I think it's safe to assume that Gene went to The limbo when died. The actual limbo, the one that's for everybody not some fantasy place he reconstructed out of his sheer will from scratch. Familiar concept for most religions. Hence the presence and the powers of Keats. You wouldn't place a Devil jr in your happy place. Assuming it's the limbo, everybody get's there and go about their everyday buisiness, resolving their issues, interacting on the way and keeping the society going. It's just that the copper's side is one side of the limbo we getto see, cause it looks fancy on telly. Everyone else have their own equivalent for the Railway Arms I think, it's just beyond the point of the series. (Probably "home"/Italy for Luigi). Basically, I think they have to all be actual dead peeps there, that's only logical, and Gene had his powers thrust upon him.Probably, in doing so resolving his own main issue rigth at the start of it all)
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