The Coptic dilemma! sense and sensetivity!
What a nice and shocking conversation that I had with 5 Muslim colleagues of mine about Coptic rights... the conversation started by the usual curious question anyone of my Muslim colleagues asks me whenever no Christian friend of mine is near.... and this is rare by the way, almost all of my close friends are Christians and that day I had an unexpected traffic troubles so I missed the lecture and waited outside with some friends who were all Muslims by coincidence... we were in the place where the students who belong to Muslim brotherhood usually hang out!
And my reply was clear, most of my friends are Christian because most of the students in our study group are Christians! also because I am very sympathetic with their case.
I won't go too much in the details and will mention the main points of disagreement between me and the Muslim brotherhood students:
First point: A secular constitution!
Their opinion: The Egyptian constitution is very secular and doesn't acknowledge any minorities in the republic, so it is totally wrong to speak about minority rights, especially that Christians had always accepted the nature of our constitution and worked through it, then why now speak about their rights and demand it in the time of the American interference in our internal business!?
My Opinion: Yes it is right, the Egyptian constitution is secular and doesn't recognize minorities. I am sure of that... well but let's take a look at reality and see these facts:
1- Compared to France (which is the nearest political system to Egypt in the western world) Egypt still enlist every citizens religion in the ID, then why is that if our constitution look to us as totally equal and with no minorities.... as long as I know, France never enlist your religion in the ID or passport
2- During Sadat's time; the constitution had several changes which include the second Amendment of the Egyptian constitution: (Egypt is an Islamic country, ruled democratically with a secular constitution by means of a socialist system) instead of (Egypt is a democratic country ruled by secular constitution in meas of a socialist system)
WTF? what is that? how can a secular constitution says that the country is Islamic! but excuse me first, How can Egypt be Islamic, did Egypt speak! I don't hear her voice! she is silent and she never told me of her religion! so where is the secular constitution that acknowledges no minorities! it already admited that Egypt is Islamic country, so congratulations from that moment on we have religious minorities called Coptic Orthodox, Roman Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Bahais and others!
Second point: Dominance of Egyptian Christians on politics!
Their opinion: That Mubarak is the dog of America {Sic}, our prime minister was taught in Canada (both countries are pure Christians to them) and our minister of treasury is Mr, Yousef Botrous Ghaly (a Coptic Orthodox), so our country is ruled by Christians, why do Christians complain after all of their dominance!?
My opinion: after referring to how much I do disagree with Mr, Mubarak about millions of cases, yet I am sure that he isn't the dog of America {Sic} : he hasn't visited it in the last four years. He is the subject of strong attacks by American media especially newspapers describing him as a major dictator. Even military aids to Egypt were lowered by 7 billion dollars.
Our prime minister visited USA last year and was attacked by thousands of questions about human rights and he was just lucky to get out of there in one piece.
Besides, even if our government were a dog for America, still that doesn't mean at all that Egyptian Christians are dominating on our government at all evidenced by many reasons: 1-Religion isn't politics after all though it affects it. 2- Christians have vast sectarian faiths just like Muslims, in Egypt, the majority of Christians are Orthodox while in America, the majority are protestant and Catholics if I may say (though I am sure that most of the western people don't bother too much about religion) so it would have been more acceptable if you said that our government is a dog for Russia, here, the majority there are Orthodox (some of them didn't know that by the way and thought all Russian people are communists!)
Still even if our government and politicians were dogs for Russia, that doesn't imply at all that the country is dominated by its minority as The Egyptian Church (Precisely The Coptic Church) is a powerful center in the world of Orthodox, it rules all Orthodox in Egypt, Ethiopia and other places in Sudan, while in Russia we have another powerful center. while there is no capital for Orthodox like The Vatican, then the expected result would have been lots of trials of the Russian Church to dominate over the Coptic Church, which means that it would have been impossible that Christians in Egypt would be dominating anything in the republic even their own church!
Third point: specific number of chairs for Christians in the parliament:
Their opinion: The constitution already refuses to recognize any minority, how can we make special number for certain unrecognized group in the parliament. Besides, what is the use of having 10% of the parliament of Christians? and even if we guaranteed Christians a certain number of chairs in the parliament, it would only worsen things and transform Egypt into another Lebanon!
My Opinion: Half of our parliament chairs must be occupied by workers and farmers according to the constitution, does that make them minorities!
in Sweden for example: an activist proposed a law to the parliament to make it obligatory that half of the members should be females. Regardless of the result of such a proposal, the point remains that women there aren't a minority either.
so we needn't recognize any minority in the constitution in order to grant them a number of seats in the parliament.
Besides, we talked before about the constitution in the first point.
The use of having 10% christian members in the parliament (at least) is very easy and doesn't need an explanation: to speak for themselves and claim their rights!
look at the current situation: because of the so called secular constitution, we have 444 members in the People's Assembly ( the most important council of Egypt's congress or better say Parliament) and we have less than 15 christian members there, even less than 10 and most of those get hired in the parliament by the president (the constitution grants him the right to hire 10 members in the people's Assembly) so you never hear any protest of them (especially that most of them are already hired and not elected) and we reached the current very bad situation.
And if we made this step it will never make us another Lebanon at all: cause the election will run between 2 Christian runners up, on the contrary, it will allow certain differences in the Christian minority and help make different alliances between Muslims and Christians who share the same political values and ends the closed community phenomena at least in political aspect.
Besides, I hate to summarize 15 years of the Lebanese war in two lines, but I must say that there is vast difference between Egypt and Lebanon: The Egyptian people are mostly unarmed (weapon trade is totally illegal and prevented in Egypt except in upper Egypt) and the percentage of religious groups doesn't allow at all a civil war, you have 90% of Muslims to 10% of Christians, I see the result in these numbers and it doesn't say civil war, it says ٌReligious Cleansing more! and this won't happen at all in Egypt, as it didn't happen in dozens of countries with empowered minorities. Lebanon was a special case.
Fourth point: A highly closed minority!
Their opinion: Christians are getting too close on themselves, they don't get friends with their surrounding majority of Muslims and even I referred to the corner at which our Christian colleagues hang out alone as the ُEparchy of Abbaseya (the place where our university lies), and they are so unaccepting or unwilling to get any Muslim friends.
My opinion: I think I can analyze their opinion for a second and for instance I feel as if they blame the Christian minority or think that they are offending minority, which is a very unacceptable and ironic thing at the same time that I burst in laughter just thinking about such a possibility.
Yes, I am the one who referred to the Christian corner as the Eparchy of Abbaseya, and I was the first to criticize this queer position in our university whose campus is divided between Muslim and Christian places...
but I always hang out in the Eparchy in the middle of more than 150 christian colleague.. so why me? because I was curious about them and I went there by my own desire so no one stopped me at all or refused my presence, in fact they always welcomed me and always explained every fact I asked about in Christianity and in their demands and how they think is best to run the country...
So I am a walking evidence that they are not closed at any level, they are afraid!
Yes, they are afraid, they are minority and they just can't go to every one and explain their religion and their identity, god! it would have been a catastrophe...
the majority of Muslims would consider this a trial of diverting people and making everyone Christian and it would be real disaster for them.
but it doesn't go both ways... Being the majority in the country, I insist that Muslims should take the first step if they want to break that ugly form of closed religious groups, Human hisory never witnessed an offending minority this is so stupid and prejudging.
Fifth point: Religious leaders Inciting Christians in the Church:
One of my friend said: I had an uncle and he was very Christian friendly, once he went to the church with one of his friends (during Nasser's time) and heard the Pope giving a speech saying that Christians should never co operate with Muslims ..
My reply: I strongly doubt this story, but even if it happened and even if there is such an example of a pope (which I strongly doubt) then why look at the minority of people, Why didn't the man in the story go and fire a complain for Pope Schenodah and see what will happen.
and if it happened 40 years ago, is it reason for hatred now!? this is stupid
on the contrary, open the national TV in Egypt and you will be faced by five Azans (a call for Muslim prayers) a day. lots of Qur'an and Islamic shows and nothing at all about Christianity (only once a year during Christmas) also there are lots of Imams who criticize christian faith on Tv without giving the least chance for a pope to reply!
this lead to lots of Cable channels speaking about religion and attacking one another, mos Christian cable channels are on Hot Bird 6, so the government can't touch them and most Christians are switching their dishes to hotbird 6 so unintentionally they ignore the Egyptian cable channels and become further far from the community, watching only religious TV channels
and when the exposed response happened in the form of an attacking Christian Tv show hosted by a pope on a cable channel, the whole majority attacked all Christians, although the Church assured everyone that this isn't the way it calls for Jesus and the monk was fired at once.
They say that curiosity killed the cat, well gentlemen this is the only case when curiosity can save the cat! We must ask questions about each other, visit each other, get near each other and learn to respect each other. Cause if we didn't, then, only then, The Lebanese case will be repeated and we will take decades to learn the simple lesson that we can learn right now in great peace, brotherhood and prosperity
Simply we have two choices and we must take one, and I pray that we choose the right one... not only pray, I am fighting for it everyday in peace. This gentlemen is the simple and clear answer to your question in the start, this is why I love to have so many christian friends
And my reply was clear, most of my friends are Christian because most of the students in our study group are Christians! also because I am very sympathetic with their case.
I won't go too much in the details and will mention the main points of disagreement between me and the Muslim brotherhood students:
First point: A secular constitution!
Their opinion: The Egyptian constitution is very secular and doesn't acknowledge any minorities in the republic, so it is totally wrong to speak about minority rights, especially that Christians had always accepted the nature of our constitution and worked through it, then why now speak about their rights and demand it in the time of the American interference in our internal business!?
My Opinion: Yes it is right, the Egyptian constitution is secular and doesn't recognize minorities. I am sure of that... well but let's take a look at reality and see these facts:
1- Compared to France (which is the nearest political system to Egypt in the western world) Egypt still enlist every citizens religion in the ID, then why is that if our constitution look to us as totally equal and with no minorities.... as long as I know, France never enlist your religion in the ID or passport
2- During Sadat's time; the constitution had several changes which include the second Amendment of the Egyptian constitution: (Egypt is an Islamic country, ruled democratically with a secular constitution by means of a socialist system) instead of (Egypt is a democratic country ruled by secular constitution in meas of a socialist system)
WTF? what is that? how can a secular constitution says that the country is Islamic! but excuse me first, How can Egypt be Islamic, did Egypt speak! I don't hear her voice! she is silent and she never told me of her religion! so where is the secular constitution that acknowledges no minorities! it already admited that Egypt is Islamic country, so congratulations from that moment on we have religious minorities called Coptic Orthodox, Roman Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Bahais and others!
Second point: Dominance of Egyptian Christians on politics!
Their opinion: That Mubarak is the dog of America {Sic}, our prime minister was taught in Canada (both countries are pure Christians to them) and our minister of treasury is Mr, Yousef Botrous Ghaly (a Coptic Orthodox), so our country is ruled by Christians, why do Christians complain after all of their dominance!?
My opinion: after referring to how much I do disagree with Mr, Mubarak about millions of cases, yet I am sure that he isn't the dog of America {Sic} : he hasn't visited it in the last four years. He is the subject of strong attacks by American media especially newspapers describing him as a major dictator. Even military aids to Egypt were lowered by 7 billion dollars.
Our prime minister visited USA last year and was attacked by thousands of questions about human rights and he was just lucky to get out of there in one piece.
Besides, even if our government were a dog for America, still that doesn't mean at all that Egyptian Christians are dominating on our government at all evidenced by many reasons: 1-Religion isn't politics after all though it affects it. 2- Christians have vast sectarian faiths just like Muslims, in Egypt, the majority of Christians are Orthodox while in America, the majority are protestant and Catholics if I may say (though I am sure that most of the western people don't bother too much about religion) so it would have been more acceptable if you said that our government is a dog for Russia, here, the majority there are Orthodox (some of them didn't know that by the way and thought all Russian people are communists!)
Still even if our government and politicians were dogs for Russia, that doesn't imply at all that the country is dominated by its minority as The Egyptian Church (Precisely The Coptic Church) is a powerful center in the world of Orthodox, it rules all Orthodox in Egypt, Ethiopia and other places in Sudan, while in Russia we have another powerful center. while there is no capital for Orthodox like The Vatican, then the expected result would have been lots of trials of the Russian Church to dominate over the Coptic Church, which means that it would have been impossible that Christians in Egypt would be dominating anything in the republic even their own church!
Third point: specific number of chairs for Christians in the parliament:
Their opinion: The constitution already refuses to recognize any minority, how can we make special number for certain unrecognized group in the parliament. Besides, what is the use of having 10% of the parliament of Christians? and even if we guaranteed Christians a certain number of chairs in the parliament, it would only worsen things and transform Egypt into another Lebanon!
My Opinion: Half of our parliament chairs must be occupied by workers and farmers according to the constitution, does that make them minorities!
in Sweden for example: an activist proposed a law to the parliament to make it obligatory that half of the members should be females. Regardless of the result of such a proposal, the point remains that women there aren't a minority either.
so we needn't recognize any minority in the constitution in order to grant them a number of seats in the parliament.
Besides, we talked before about the constitution in the first point.
The use of having 10% christian members in the parliament (at least) is very easy and doesn't need an explanation: to speak for themselves and claim their rights!
look at the current situation: because of the so called secular constitution, we have 444 members in the People's Assembly ( the most important council of Egypt's congress or better say Parliament) and we have less than 15 christian members there, even less than 10 and most of those get hired in the parliament by the president (the constitution grants him the right to hire 10 members in the people's Assembly) so you never hear any protest of them (especially that most of them are already hired and not elected) and we reached the current very bad situation.
And if we made this step it will never make us another Lebanon at all: cause the election will run between 2 Christian runners up, on the contrary, it will allow certain differences in the Christian minority and help make different alliances between Muslims and Christians who share the same political values and ends the closed community phenomena at least in political aspect.
Besides, I hate to summarize 15 years of the Lebanese war in two lines, but I must say that there is vast difference between Egypt and Lebanon: The Egyptian people are mostly unarmed (weapon trade is totally illegal and prevented in Egypt except in upper Egypt) and the percentage of religious groups doesn't allow at all a civil war, you have 90% of Muslims to 10% of Christians, I see the result in these numbers and it doesn't say civil war, it says ٌReligious Cleansing more! and this won't happen at all in Egypt, as it didn't happen in dozens of countries with empowered minorities. Lebanon was a special case.
Fourth point: A highly closed minority!
Their opinion: Christians are getting too close on themselves, they don't get friends with their surrounding majority of Muslims and even I referred to the corner at which our Christian colleagues hang out alone as the ُEparchy of Abbaseya (the place where our university lies), and they are so unaccepting or unwilling to get any Muslim friends.
My opinion: I think I can analyze their opinion for a second and for instance I feel as if they blame the Christian minority or think that they are offending minority, which is a very unacceptable and ironic thing at the same time that I burst in laughter just thinking about such a possibility.
Yes, I am the one who referred to the Christian corner as the Eparchy of Abbaseya, and I was the first to criticize this queer position in our university whose campus is divided between Muslim and Christian places...
but I always hang out in the Eparchy in the middle of more than 150 christian colleague.. so why me? because I was curious about them and I went there by my own desire so no one stopped me at all or refused my presence, in fact they always welcomed me and always explained every fact I asked about in Christianity and in their demands and how they think is best to run the country...
So I am a walking evidence that they are not closed at any level, they are afraid!
Yes, they are afraid, they are minority and they just can't go to every one and explain their religion and their identity, god! it would have been a catastrophe...
the majority of Muslims would consider this a trial of diverting people and making everyone Christian and it would be real disaster for them.
but it doesn't go both ways... Being the majority in the country, I insist that Muslims should take the first step if they want to break that ugly form of closed religious groups, Human hisory never witnessed an offending minority this is so stupid and prejudging.
Fifth point: Religious leaders Inciting Christians in the Church:
One of my friend said: I had an uncle and he was very Christian friendly, once he went to the church with one of his friends (during Nasser's time) and heard the Pope giving a speech saying that Christians should never co operate with Muslims ..
My reply: I strongly doubt this story, but even if it happened and even if there is such an example of a pope (which I strongly doubt) then why look at the minority of people, Why didn't the man in the story go and fire a complain for Pope Schenodah and see what will happen.
and if it happened 40 years ago, is it reason for hatred now!? this is stupid
on the contrary, open the national TV in Egypt and you will be faced by five Azans (a call for Muslim prayers) a day. lots of Qur'an and Islamic shows and nothing at all about Christianity (only once a year during Christmas) also there are lots of Imams who criticize christian faith on Tv without giving the least chance for a pope to reply!
this lead to lots of Cable channels speaking about religion and attacking one another, mos Christian cable channels are on Hot Bird 6, so the government can't touch them and most Christians are switching their dishes to hotbird 6 so unintentionally they ignore the Egyptian cable channels and become further far from the community, watching only religious TV channels
and when the exposed response happened in the form of an attacking Christian Tv show hosted by a pope on a cable channel, the whole majority attacked all Christians, although the Church assured everyone that this isn't the way it calls for Jesus and the monk was fired at once.
They say that curiosity killed the cat, well gentlemen this is the only case when curiosity can save the cat! We must ask questions about each other, visit each other, get near each other and learn to respect each other. Cause if we didn't, then, only then, The Lebanese case will be repeated and we will take decades to learn the simple lesson that we can learn right now in great peace, brotherhood and prosperity
Simply we have two choices and we must take one, and I pray that we choose the right one... not only pray, I am fighting for it everyday in peace. This gentlemen is the simple and clear answer to your question in the start, this is why I love to have so many christian friends