I think your right, and I also think perhaps some baby fic IS wanting to use it as a device - babies are the fic equivalent of shipper glue - it's the novelty prize when there's just that much love (and lack of birth control). But I think that after they've been used for that purpose they often just kind of sit there gurgling about in the crib while the parents stand there holding one another with much eye gazing of love. Though if you want to go along the timeline there's now an original character that needs to be fleshed out with it's own personality shaped by random genes and the possibly completely odd environment it's being raised in. There's also the temptation I think to turn the parents into these idealised scary 1950's archetypes, with dad smoking a pipe and playing with the kids, and mom in the apron baking apple pie. The Buffyverse becomes the Normalverse
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But I think that after they've been used for that purpose they often just kind of sit there gurgling about in the crib while the parents stand there holding one another with much eye gazing of love.
Exactly; a lot of times, having achieved Baby, you're left with "Now what?"
I think the thing is, you have to treat kids like any other characters. They should only be there if you have a use for them, and you have to think about how they're going to interact with the rest of the cast.
I want to see a story where Buffy's got a baby on each hip and a toddler clinging to her legs, Spike's sprawled out in the lounge using the tip of his boot to nudge another couple of kids out of the way of the tv and then they share a resigned look at each other, back up the station wagon down the drive way, load up, and take a trip down to the orphange, ring the bell, and then they both run like mad.
I may not in fact be the most maternal person on the planet, heh!
That actually sounds really fascinating. I totally agree the one of the biggest artistic acheivements of the show was its funhouse mirror image of reality. Not so sure that the central conceit really fell apart after the high school stuff - I can remember quite a few clever allusions during the college years (Beer Bad. Beer very, very bad!). Not to mention the mudane realities Buffy had to face in the aftermath of Joyce's death (working at the burger joint, dealing of social workers and "unhealthy" sexual relationships, etc). Nevertheless, your point is well taken. It would be fascinating to see the gang +10 or even 20 years, trying to navigate the hazards of child-rearing, mortage shopping and all. Actually, it seems like the opportunties for savage, Btvs-style wit would only multiply as they got older. I smell a supernatural tax auditor and a nighmarish PTA cult in their futures!
Right now I'm wondering if Buffy's estrangement from 'real life' in the comics is deliberate, and Means Something, or if Joss just finds it easier to go the superhero route sans Aunt May.
Comic!Buffy no longer has this conflict because she no longer has any mundane ties.
Now that is a very interesting point. I can't really think of anything to say about it, but it's interesting.
I've never really had a problem with Buffy as a mother. In some fics it seems to sanatise the story, with Spike and Buffy becoming marshmallow people instead of their normal selves, which turns me off, but as a concept I don't mind it. I've always had the feeling she might suffer from post-natal depression, but I've never read anything that deals with it that way.
She does seem like a prime candidate for post-natal depression. I think Herself did something with that, in fact, though if I'm remembering right, her Bittersweets Buffy slipped into a depression some years after Jemima was born...
I've never read the Bittersweets series - it passed me by for so long and now I'm just worried about getting into it and trying to read the whole thing in one go (which I have a habit of doing with anything new). It would arrest me for far too long, though I should probably try at some point...
It's mostly short stories (especially the first parts) and there are several good stopping places if you want to catch your breath before going on. Which you might want to do on occasion - Herself writes gorgeous prose, but it's a very emotionally intense series.
I only disagree with one point - Joyce. I always thought of her as a really warm and effective Mom figure, for all her mistakes. I thought the show suffered when she died.
I agree. She did an arm flail over the slayer bit initially (and who wouldn't) but it was more for plot device/comedic effect than anything. Other than that I always viewed her as caring and warm towards Buffy and the rest of the Scoobies - and yes, she was flawed, but there's nothing wrong with giving a character a bit of a personality so that she could be 'Joyce' and not just 'Buffy's Mom'.
Overall I love Joyce, but I do think that telling Buffy at the end of S2 not to come home if she was going to keep up with this Slayer thing was more than just comedic flailing. I think that rejection hurt Buffy as much or more than sending Angel to hell, but it was kind of glossed over within a few episodes of Buffy coming home in S3.
Definitely not comedic flailing, but definitely a plot device. They needed to have Buffy feeling like all ties were cut off so she could do the sad bus journey of emo woe leaving Sunnydale for the season cliffhanger. My cynicism of how tv writers manipulate characters in order to manipulate audiences might however make me shrug off character faults and see them less harshly than is warranted depending on the set up. It was like the whole 'doctor' thing with Spike and the demon eggs, that was a big ehhh to me because it kind of just sat there limply in that episode and was never a big deal.
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Exactly; a lot of times, having achieved Baby, you're left with "Now what?"
I think the thing is, you have to treat kids like any other characters. They should only be there if you have a use for them, and you have to think about how they're going to interact with the rest of the cast.
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I may not in fact be the most maternal person on the planet, heh!
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Or they could sell them to demon cults - there seems to be a huge market for babies in the demon cult world!
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Anyway, great idea!
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Now that is a very interesting point. I can't really think of anything to say about it, but it's interesting.
I've never really had a problem with Buffy as a mother. In some fics it seems to sanatise the story, with Spike and Buffy becoming marshmallow people instead of their normal selves, which turns me off, but as a concept I don't mind it. I've always had the feeling she might suffer from post-natal depression, but I've never read anything that deals with it that way.
Anyway, Barb, you sell it well!
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It's just... nothing dumps me out of a story faster than kids turning up.
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