Is it even possible to appropriate from a white subculture?

[chaosphaere]

This is in response to some claims I've seen - that the white mainstream is appropriating from geek culture, that metrosexuals are appropriating the markers of gay culture. I'll comment/edit with specific examples as I find them

Comments

[crushdmb]

Soooooo, geeks and gay people are only white? Really?

Yeah. No.

[chaosphaere]

Definitely not, and my bad, I should've been clearer on this. The subcultures themselves though seem to have their own "mainstream" and those seem kind of based on white culture... I've known some non-white gays and geeks who felt out of place within the "mainstream" of geek and gay culture.

[copinggoggles]

I think it's fair to say that in the media/the popular imagination, both geek culture and gay culture are drawn as:

1) primarily the domain of white people, and

2) usually, but not as overwhelmingly, about dudes.

In geek culture, at least, a lot of its members are also guilty of buying into this attitude; certainly, the fact that in both subcultures the experiences of PoC have often been rendered invisible has been a source of tension in the past. In that sense, I suppose, you could call geek and gay cultures white cultures in the same way that Western society in general is a white culture - in that regardless of actual makeup, the 'default' face and POV are usually assumed by the white majority to be that of a white person.

I don't know if this is the sense in which the OP meant it, though; tbh it does sound a little like zie is asking, 'is it possible to appropriate from white people?', which... see above.

ETA: Damn, I am slow.

[chaosphaere]

Damn, that is spot on. I just didn't have the words/couldn't articulate it.

Thank you.

[papertigers]

the defining characteristics of an oppressed/minority culture are not determined by the perspective of the privileged/dominant culture. how geek and gay communities appear to mainstream/straight communities doesn't make labeling them as White any less offensive.

[copinggoggles]

I don't disagree with you; it is offensive, and culturally coding these communities as White helps to marginalise the experiences of PoC within them. But I do think the expectations of the privileged/dominant culture can have an effect, mostly when those expectations (viz. whiteness) are internally reflected and reinforced within said subcultures by those whose voices are privileged due to their proximity to the dominant model (white, cis, male, etc).

[papertigers]

you original point was to question that claims of appropriation in gay/geek cultures because they are "White" subcultures. privileged identities within oppressed communities do not define those communities; that's what intersectionality is about. White cis male identities are privileged within gay communities; that doesn't make gay communities White cis male communities. and the presence, prevalence, and privileged status of those identities doesn't negate the oppression or potential misappropriation of those cultures.

[chaosphaere]

I see the point here; even I was guilty when I said "white subculture". I just caught myself and realized that I tend to think of the gay subculture and geek subculture as white even though I *know* people in each who are not... wow.

BTW, would it be possible to get my other account added to the community? I no longer use this one, plan to delete it as soon as I'm finished archiving it, and came out of retirement with it *just to post here*. My other account is gmdreia.

(btw, kinda quasi off topic, I had an epiphany the other day about why I wasn't getting along with the lesbian community. Thanks to this community, in fact. I realized that as a 1) femme who 2) came out later in life, I have a lot of privilege which needs to be unpacked)