Who reads epic fantasy?

[rachelmanija]

This post was not only prompted by a remarkably stupid NY Times review of the "Game of Thrones" TV series, in which the reviewer thought the story was a polemic against global warming, claimed that women don't like fantasy, and further claimed that women do love sex, so the sex was gratuitously crammed in to please them

Comments

[swan_tower]

It's a telling point that I would not have thought to put either Carey or Lackey in the "epic fantasy" camp, even though when you list the usual characteristics of that sub-genre they both do pretty much fit the bill. I find myself reflexively disqualifying them -- Carey because of the romantic layer, Lackey because of the YA sheen -- which says a lot, right there.

But yes, the top names in thick, gritty, war-laden epic are undoubtedly male; you can add David Eddings, Joe Abercrombie, and Steven Erikson to that list, and many more besides. Anecdotally, I think they get read more by men, but I don't have data to back it up.

As for why that is . . . there's a pretty well-documented shift that as the proportion of women in an activity increases, the societal valuation of that activity decreases. And obviously we class certain topics as female (romance) or male (war). So clearly the Important Books are the ones about war, the ones men are (mostly) writing, and all the rest of that stuff is nice but not nearly as important.

I'd love to see sales figures for urban fantasy vs. epic -- not just the top names of, say, Hamilton vs. Martin, but a more comprehensive comparison of the genres. If it turned out that UF actually moves more units all told, I wouldn't be remotely surprised.

[asakiyume]

there's a pretty well-documented shift that as the proportion of women in an activity increases, the societal valuation of that activity decreases. --I hate this fact.

[barbarienne]

Could we arrange for more women to become enormous, visible fans of pro football (American)? I wouldn't mind that getting societally devalued.

[asakiyume]

LOL!! (literally)

[rachelmanija]

And obviously we class certain topics as female (romance) or male (war). So clearly the Important Books are the ones about war, the ones men are (mostly) writing, and all the rest of that stuff is nice but not nearly as important.

What I find especially interesting is that some women are writing the big fat fantasies about war and so forth, but are not getting promoted as much and not selling as much: Kate Elliott, Katherine Kerr, Sherwood Smith, Barbara Hambly (who has been pushed into other genres for lack of fantasy sales), Laurie Marks, etc.

[swan_tower]

As soon as there's a female name on the cover, "feminine" aspects of the story become much more prominent in the reader's mind. I seem to recall, though don't have the link to, an experiment somebody did that involved getting people to read the same story, in some instances with a male name on it, in some with a female. In the latter case, people viewed the romantic aspect of the story as being far more central than when the story appeared to have a male author. The book is less about war if Kate Elliott wrote it than if Robert Jordan did.

[rachelmanija]

Very depressingly true!

[kateelliott]

[dancinghorse]

I've done it in crashing obscurity. Also, tendency to shoot down cherished templates and ignite the shards.

Got a death threat or two, and some screaming reviews of the HOW DARE SHE DOOOOO THAT!!! sort. If they'd been by Jonathan instead of Judith, I wonder if they might have done better all around.

http://www.amazon.com/Avaryan-Rising-Mountain-Han-Gilen-Princes/dp/0312863888/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1303078152&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Avaryan-Resplendent-Judith-Tarr/dp/B000H2M8QK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1303078189&sr=1-1

My next pseudonym is going to be initials, linked to a male-leaning bio. By way of experiment.

[rachelmanija]

I will be very curious to see how that goes. All else aside, it will test the difference between the publishers (who know your gender) and the readers and book-buyers (who won't.)