"Cheeseburger first."
Which is to say, that I saw Iron Man for the second time today, and it was so much fun that I kept getting distracted by the awesomepants and funny and falling in love with Robert Downey Jr all over again instead of, you know. Focusing on exactly getting Stark's personality and mannerisms down so that I can write dirty, dirty fic about the time Pepper did catch him doing something worse.
But really, it ties into something I've been puzzling over for Rome fic for a while: how do you make a guy like Mark Antony or Tony Stark be loyal to you? Or more accurately, what kind of interesting stories can I tell about earning Antony or Stark's loyalty?
Though yeah, they have a lot in common. The I LIKE BOOZE AND SEXXIN' WOMENS thing is there. So is the frivolity covering the fact that they're both phenomenal at their jobs. And the snarky sense of humor. And if you really want to go backstory mojo, historical Antony lost his father at an early age and lived with v. little parental guidance. Stark had a similar issue post-death of both his parents. (Interesting, in't it, that you mostly hear about his dad? The picture you see under his plasma screen in that shot only has a man in it. Where's the mom, guys?)
So they're more alike than different, I think. Antony goes nuts in Season 2, and he's a much, much, much nastier person than Stark, but a good part of that, I think, is just Roman socieity. And there's definitely enough in common that comparison might throw up interesting results.
So.
Possible data points for Stark: Pepper, Obediah, Rhodey. Although arguably, Stark saying, You're all I've got," to Pepper really, really suggests that she's the only one he feels like he gets to go home to. Which makes him calling Rhodey up to ask for help just fascinating -- although I'm probably overthinking it. There's just not that much to go on, and Stane .
Possible data points for Antony: Caesar, Atia, Cleopatra. I think of Brutus/Antony as pretty much being canon, but that's an emotional connection of a different sort. I don't think loyalty plays a part in it. And the Cleopatra thing is hard to parse out because it's not entirely clear whether he would've stuck with her the way he did if Octavian hadn't backed him into a hole. Plus, Antony's loyalty to Atia is complicated, much like the rest of him. There's a lot of squabbling and fighting and breaking up and getting back together, which is what you'd expect, really, for a guy like Antony. Antony undoubtedly loves Atia, and he goes back to her post-Octavia marriage and he breaks his heart over Atia (if I remember correctly) when she comes to Rome, but is he loyal to her?
Which leaves, as the core, unproblematic cases, Pepper for Stark and Caesar for Antony. It's an interesting inversion of the power structures between the two, but that's actually helpful. If a similar trait can be found or inferred in both relationships, it's a decent sign that I can use that as a building-block:
- Long duration. More explicit for the Pepper-Tony relationship than for Caesar-Antony, and if I remember my math correctly, historical Antony joined Caesar in 54BC, and the Rome series opens at 52BC, so that's only two years. They've got their shit down, though, and from what I can tell, the series actually plays up how much Antony was Caesar's right-hand man.
- Meeting some need that S or A has. Again, more explicit for the Pepper-Tony relationship than for Caesar-Antony because Tony, uh. Probably would have to hack an ATM machine with spit and a nail clipper to get cash since he doesn't know his PIN. It's only suggested in Rome, but I'm of the opinion that Antony wouldn't have gotten to be tribune of the plebs, etc, if Caesar hadn't backed him -- it makes sense, though, what with Brutus making that snippy little comment about "no family at all" and if you take Brutus to be a stand-in for the aristocracy's opinion of Antony. It also coheres with historical Antony being massively in debt and needing to hitch his star to something as massively profitable as Caesar's Gallic campaigns makes a lot of sense, too.
- Respect is a two-way street. Oddly enough, I think this is more clearly on display in the Caesar-Antony relationship -- to go back to the Brutus-Caesar-Antony scene, there's that line Caesar says about how he puts up with Antony because Antony likes to fight. Which is Caesar's understated way of saying that Antony is a fucking badass soldier. And Antony clearly respects Caesar even if the thinks that Caesar is too lenient/prone to prancing around in pretty purple.
It's less clear that Pepper respects Stark. I mean, I don't think she doesn't, but I can't think of an example in the movie where she does. This makes, sense, though, because it looks like a big part of her job usually consists of cleaning up Tony's messes.
It's kind of beyond peradventure, I think, that Antony respects Caesar and that Stark respects Pepper.
- Clear-eyed knowledge of S or A's limitations. And S and A know that the other party knows these limitations. This is crucial, I think, and is proabbly the most striking element that I've figured out so far. It ties into the respect element, I think, going from Tony to Pepper and from Antony to Caesar. Canon evidence of Caesar knowing Antony's limits is, if needed, that Brutus-Antony-Caesar scene where Caesar gives the order for Antony to be given the gold to find the eagle, "but not a penny more," and Antony laughingly goes off, having sufficiently proved to Brutus that CAESAR IS HIS BEST FRIEND, KAY, NOT YOURS, EVEN IF YOU ARE ALL ARISTOCRATY AND HE HUGGED YOU IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY AND WAS INFINITESMALLY MORE OKAY WITH YOU OFFERING HIM SYMPAHTIES FOR HIS DEAD DAUGHTER.
And then the crucial scene at the end of Iron Man where you-know-what happens. *
- Sass. See Clear-eyed knowledge above.
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER FOR IRON MAN
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER FOR IRON MAN, THOUGH REALLY, WHY HAVEN'T YOU SEEN IT YET.
Can I just say, by the way, how much I love the setup of the kiss on the balcony in Iron Man? I was really watching the dynamics of it today, and man, it's so fucking great. Pepper is the one who initiates the actual moving-forward of the kiss. She goes in, then hesitates and goes in some more, and Stark is just there, frozen, with this blank expression on his face. I mean, presumably, he's trying to figure out whether it would be a good idea or not. And then, when he finally comes to the conclusion that, yes, he wants to do this, that's when Pepper pulls back. GOD, I LOVE IT SO MUCH.
And getting into Stark's head for the moments before that scene is fascinating. Clearly, he wants to make it with Pepper. That's why he went and danced with her. And gave her that charming little show of how much she does for him because, oh, he knows how to flatter and charm. And they went out on the balcony, and he's there and looking at her, but then, paired with his reluctance to actually do the deed -- what does it mean? What does it suggest?
Needless to say, as much as I love the fact that they don't get together as a couple, thinking through what it would have been life if they'd had sex makes me go googly.
END SPOILER
END SPOILER
SO YES, A LOT OF WORDS TO DESCRIBE A BUNCH OF TRAITS THAT ARE, IN FACT, INTUITIVELY OBVIOUS.
But really, it ties into something I've been puzzling over for Rome fic for a while: how do you make a guy like Mark Antony or Tony Stark be loyal to you? Or more accurately, what kind of interesting stories can I tell about earning Antony or Stark's loyalty?
Though yeah, they have a lot in common. The I LIKE BOOZE AND SEXXIN' WOMENS thing is there. So is the frivolity covering the fact that they're both phenomenal at their jobs. And the snarky sense of humor. And if you really want to go backstory mojo, historical Antony lost his father at an early age and lived with v. little parental guidance. Stark had a similar issue post-death of both his parents. (Interesting, in't it, that you mostly hear about his dad? The picture you see under his plasma screen in that shot only has a man in it. Where's the mom, guys?)
So they're more alike than different, I think. Antony goes nuts in Season 2, and he's a much, much, much nastier person than Stark, but a good part of that, I think, is just Roman socieity. And there's definitely enough in common that comparison might throw up interesting results.
So.
Possible data points for Stark: Pepper, Obediah, Rhodey. Although arguably, Stark saying, You're all I've got," to Pepper really, really suggests that she's the only one he feels like he gets to go home to. Which makes him calling Rhodey up to ask for help just fascinating -- although I'm probably overthinking it. There's just not that much to go on, and Stane .
Possible data points for Antony: Caesar, Atia, Cleopatra. I think of Brutus/Antony as pretty much being canon, but that's an emotional connection of a different sort. I don't think loyalty plays a part in it. And the Cleopatra thing is hard to parse out because it's not entirely clear whether he would've stuck with her the way he did if Octavian hadn't backed him into a hole. Plus, Antony's loyalty to Atia is complicated, much like the rest of him. There's a lot of squabbling and fighting and breaking up and getting back together, which is what you'd expect, really, for a guy like Antony. Antony undoubtedly loves Atia, and he goes back to her post-Octavia marriage and he breaks his heart over Atia (if I remember correctly) when she comes to Rome, but is he loyal to her?
Which leaves, as the core, unproblematic cases, Pepper for Stark and Caesar for Antony. It's an interesting inversion of the power structures between the two, but that's actually helpful. If a similar trait can be found or inferred in both relationships, it's a decent sign that I can use that as a building-block:
- Long duration. More explicit for the Pepper-Tony relationship than for Caesar-Antony, and if I remember my math correctly, historical Antony joined Caesar in 54BC, and the Rome series opens at 52BC, so that's only two years. They've got their shit down, though, and from what I can tell, the series actually plays up how much Antony was Caesar's right-hand man.
- Meeting some need that S or A has. Again, more explicit for the Pepper-Tony relationship than for Caesar-Antony because Tony, uh. Probably would have to hack an ATM machine with spit and a nail clipper to get cash since he doesn't know his PIN. It's only suggested in Rome, but I'm of the opinion that Antony wouldn't have gotten to be tribune of the plebs, etc, if Caesar hadn't backed him -- it makes sense, though, what with Brutus making that snippy little comment about "no family at all" and if you take Brutus to be a stand-in for the aristocracy's opinion of Antony. It also coheres with historical Antony being massively in debt and needing to hitch his star to something as massively profitable as Caesar's Gallic campaigns makes a lot of sense, too.
- Respect is a two-way street. Oddly enough, I think this is more clearly on display in the Caesar-Antony relationship -- to go back to the Brutus-Caesar-Antony scene, there's that line Caesar says about how he puts up with Antony because Antony likes to fight. Which is Caesar's understated way of saying that Antony is a fucking badass soldier. And Antony clearly respects Caesar even if the thinks that Caesar is too lenient/prone to prancing around in pretty purple.
It's less clear that Pepper respects Stark. I mean, I don't think she doesn't, but I can't think of an example in the movie where she does. This makes, sense, though, because it looks like a big part of her job usually consists of cleaning up Tony's messes.
It's kind of beyond peradventure, I think, that Antony respects Caesar and that Stark respects Pepper.
- Clear-eyed knowledge of S or A's limitations. And S and A know that the other party knows these limitations. This is crucial, I think, and is proabbly the most striking element that I've figured out so far. It ties into the respect element, I think, going from Tony to Pepper and from Antony to Caesar. Canon evidence of Caesar knowing Antony's limits is, if needed, that Brutus-Antony-Caesar scene where Caesar gives the order for Antony to be given the gold to find the eagle, "but not a penny more," and Antony laughingly goes off, having sufficiently proved to Brutus that CAESAR IS HIS BEST FRIEND, KAY, NOT YOURS, EVEN IF YOU ARE ALL ARISTOCRATY AND HE HUGGED YOU IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY AND WAS INFINITESMALLY MORE OKAY WITH YOU OFFERING HIM SYMPAHTIES FOR HIS DEAD DAUGHTER.
And then the crucial scene at the end of Iron Man where you-know-what happens. *
- Sass. See Clear-eyed knowledge above.
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER FOR IRON MAN
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER FOR IRON MAN, THOUGH REALLY, WHY HAVEN'T YOU SEEN IT YET.
Can I just say, by the way, how much I love the setup of the kiss on the balcony in Iron Man? I was really watching the dynamics of it today, and man, it's so fucking great. Pepper is the one who initiates the actual moving-forward of the kiss. She goes in, then hesitates and goes in some more, and Stark is just there, frozen, with this blank expression on his face. I mean, presumably, he's trying to figure out whether it would be a good idea or not. And then, when he finally comes to the conclusion that, yes, he wants to do this, that's when Pepper pulls back. GOD, I LOVE IT SO MUCH.
And getting into Stark's head for the moments before that scene is fascinating. Clearly, he wants to make it with Pepper. That's why he went and danced with her. And gave her that charming little show of how much she does for him because, oh, he knows how to flatter and charm. And they went out on the balcony, and he's there and looking at her, but then, paired with his reluctance to actually do the deed -- what does it mean? What does it suggest?
Needless to say, as much as I love the fact that they don't get together as a couple, thinking through what it would have been life if they'd had sex makes me go googly.
END SPOILER
END SPOILER
SO YES, A LOT OF WORDS TO DESCRIBE A BUNCH OF TRAITS THAT ARE, IN FACT, INTUITIVELY OBVIOUS.