Something I think more people should be exposed to...

Jun 11, 2009 16:04

Originally posted by pecuniumSo.... the argument goes like this ( Read more... )

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operations June 12 2009, 02:33:54 UTC
I can answer that very simply:

We are not torturing because more people voted for Obama than McCain, and unlike Al Qaeda1 this guy _is_ an American Citizen (even if barely human) and thus is due our justice system.

If this guy had pulled this during the Bush Administration, I give it a 50/50 that he would have been waterboarded.

However, this whole argument of yours is pointless. You voted for Obama specifically so this would not happen. To make this argument, you would have to concede that there was a terrorist threat. In short, this post is intellectually dishonest.

1 Which, as un-uniformed combatants who claim no nation, have been given far more rights at Gitmo than they would have if any other nation had them. Un-uniformed combatants under the Geneva Conventions are spies and thus can be summarily executed without trial in the field by the commanding officer. Odd how MSNBC never mentions that...

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quiet_screaming June 12 2009, 15:18:17 UTC
You make assumptions. I have never said there was not a terrorist threat. So no, this post is not intellectually dishonest... nor if you look, originally written by me.

This sort of argument is not a request for torture by any means. It is pointing out the hypocrisy in the system. Technically this man under the various anti-terrorism laws could be declared a subversive element and no longer be accorded our justice system.

I would also like to note he's being charged with murder and assault and not being a terrorist as he should be.

And I won't bother responding to your little subscript besides this: Our next episode could be called "Who's Being Intellectually Dishonest Now?" or "Ever Hear About the Two American Journalist's Just Sentenced in to a Decade of Hard Labor in North Korea?"

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operations June 12 2009, 16:03:03 UTC
I'm sorry, but after reading you do nothing but complain about Bush for the last 8 years, one was led to believe that you lived in the same LaLa Land that they did where there was no terrorist threat, and it was all a cultural misunderstanding. And irregardless of the fact that you were not the original author, you brought it into your journal for discussion, thus implying that you agreed in part with it.

This sort of argument is not a request for torture by any means. It is pointing out the hypocrisy in the system. Technically this man under the various anti-terrorism laws could be declared a subversive element and no longer be accorded our justice system.

Which would be fine except for...

I would also like to note he's being charged with murder and assault and not being a terrorist as he should be.

... the fact that he is a US Citizen and being treated as such, rather than an un-uniformed military combantant.

Oh, and;

"Ever Hear About the Two American Journalist's Just Sentenced in to a Decade of Hard Labor in North Korea?"
... )

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quiet_screaming June 13 2009, 03:42:12 UTC
It does not matter if he is a United States citizen. There have been United States citizens who have been imprisoned in Gitmo under these laws as well. On top of that, he fits the description of un-uniformed combatant just as well as many foreign terrorists.

When I mentioned the two journalists, I was commenting on you mentioning on how they are still treated better here than they are elsewhere. I'm rather sure that if you took a survey of the longer residents of Gitmo, they'd much prefer hard labor to Gitmo.

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operations June 15 2009, 02:25:33 UTC
And yet, according to your own brand of media, conditions at Gitmo have only gotten worse under Obama. Which is a surprise that they'd be better under the 'evil Bush' than the chosen one...

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quiet_screaming June 16 2009, 00:52:12 UTC
The first thing that I find amusing in that reply is you know "my own brand of media" better than I do. I've never even -heard- of talkleft.com

Next, if you notice the reason for the deteriorating conditions is a -mass hunger strike-. Which is something the detainees are engaging in by their own choice.

Yes, these people are being beaten. This part has not changed. Obama isn't all rainbows and sunshine and he didn't walk in and wave his magic wand to make things all better. I never declared him the American Messiah.

By the way, nice change in tactics there. Resorting to the ad-hominem attack of "my own media" and not refuting the points that were being made. You completely left the debate behind.

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operations June 16 2009, 16:51:55 UTC
You admit to leaning left as much as I admit to leaning right. One would assume a left-leaning person would use left-leaning news sources. I don't expect you to watch Fox News any more than you expect me to watch MSNBC.

If they are having a hunger strike, shouldn't Obama be making them eat for their own good?

And last but not least, your original quoted post was an Ad Hock attack. It had no intellectual honesty to refute or debate.

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quiet_screaming June 17 2009, 17:29:48 UTC
*snicker* I wouldn't watch Fox OR MSNBC, I'm interested in something even vaguely related to the truth.

Umm... in the same article you posted, it mentions they -are- being force fed. Which is the only thing he can really do.

It was not an Ad Hoc attack at all. It was not attempting to explain something. An Ad Hoc attack requires the person to be attempting to explain something with something that looks like an arguement and using false causation.

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