Thoughts about Wayward Sisters and the dumbing down of the Winchesters...

[quickreaver]

I wanted to dig into some Show meta stuff, and against my better judgment, created a tumblr for this purpose. Of course, I was immediately confronted with fandom friction, and it propelled me to ruminate upon how Sam and Dean were dumbed down in the WS "pilot". Read if you wish!

Comments

[amberdreams]

You are inside my brain.

I don't want WS to fail, I want it to succeed. I love the idea of a female led show. i love Jody and Donna. I'm not so keen on the 'teen' characters but they might grow on me, if the stories are good enough. But that doesn't mean that the WS episode wasn't problematic.

I can' t see any comments on that tumblr post, are they on the link post or something? Found 'em.
*sigh*
OK it's great people love Claire. And reading those comments, the Clarie-lovers are almost on a par with the nuttier side of Destiel, in finding a sh*t ton of 'evidence' for her nigh on miraculous hunting prowess. I'd say in the face of that - leave them to it. They are already entrenched and not going to see anything but accusations and Claire-hate in anything vaguely critical.

[quickreaver]

Yeeeah, I don't even wanna get into the shitty responses on shitty tumblr. They're as bad as the so-called "bronlies", in the opposite direction. Flip side of the very same coin. It's kinda hilarious how they can't see it. That's one of the reasons I didn't just respond to the original post; I don't want their unpleasantness all over my dash, nor do I necessarily want on their radars.

I'm gonna have to be more careful the next time I wade in!

[amberdreams]

It's a frigging cess pit over there, I don't know why you bother!

[quickreaver]

I DON'T KNOW. I think it's because there are a handful of good Winchester meta writers over there, and I enjoy their words. I'll be more prudent in the future, that's for damned sure. I'll snag some of the convos I find over there and bring them up here, where it tends to be more private and civil.

[wetsammy]

These were exactly my thoughts when I tried to do a rewatch of the episode. You hit a particularly bad vein of commenters, that tend to move in a herd mentality (PROTECT OUR BABIES, CIRCLE THE WAGONS). What amberdreams said is true because the Claire stans are mostly the same crowd as the nuttier Destiel shippers.

What upsets me the most about some of these comments is that you're labeled a misogynist by these fans if you didn't like the WS ep. Rather than talk about what you love, slander those who don't.

[quickreaver]

If you look at their "abouts", they're almost always wee babs ... which doesn't necessarily mean they're mule-headed and unworldly and fond of hip buzzwords, but certainly those are common tendencies. I've already had to block one person. YAY, META.

If they rush to judgment and namecalling, and can't listen with courtesy to other opinions, that says a lot about their incapacity to learn and have empathy. And that's kinda dangerous. And eye-rolly, all at once!

[borgmama1of5]

You very eloquently explained why it is getting harder and harder to just love an episode. There's loving the Winchesters...and then watching the plot with gaping holes. And the really frustrating part is that a good writer can slide the explanation for things that 'have to happen for the plot' into the action organically rather than make fandom come up with reasons after the show!

[quickreaver]

SO MUCH YES!! I can't YES this comment enough. I think it's actually one of the biggest differences between the Kripke era, and everything subsequent. Granted, the canon has gotten more complex since then, with more stuff to consider, but I also think the current writers have lost that attention to detail, because they're cozy with the idea that fandom will follow them anywhere, and overlook wonky characterizations and dumb lolcanon.

There's a big difference between a touch of mystery or not over-explaining things, and leaving gaping plot holes or throwing your audience out of the moment with sloppy plottings.

[amberdreams]

Points up to both comments. THIS.

[roxymissrose]

I also think the current writers have lost that attention to detail, because they're cozy with the idea that fandom will follow them anywhere, and overlook wonky characterizations and dumb lolcanon. I find this to be true. I can fill in blank spots with the best of them, and I'm willing to go quite a distance supporting the writers, but every now and then, it just becomes too hard to do. Since I know that my wincest-loving self isn't actually the audience they're writing to, I need to know--who is? Is it the newer viewers who probably don't have much to say about things one way or another because they don't know

[amberdreams]

But that dumbing down of certain characters to showcase others seems to be exactly how this current team of writers work. I'm sure in the past SPN was adept at bringing in new characters and giving them depth without having to make existing characters look like complete idiots or behave totally out of character. It just smacks of lazy writing.

[quickreaver]

Since I know that my wincest-loving self isn't actually the audience they're writing to, I need to know--who is?I think this is a really important question. I think they're trying to please EVERYONE. The old-school fan, the fan who has been watching from the beginning and is invested in Sam and Dean's story-for them, they're trying to tie up loose ends (Dean's relationship with Mary, Sam's trauma in The Cage). They're trying to grow the characters into men, w/o losing their personalities. But they're also trying to satisfy the suzie-come-latelies, the younger fan who wants less Sam and Dean, more female-centric stories, more Destiel (though I don't think the show will give them Destiel, but hey, that won't stop the perception of subtext!) ... and I get it. J2 needs more time off, and the show needs to evolve with the times

[amberdreams]

Interestingly, the person who led the charge against what you said about dumbing Sam and Dean down has actually backtracked a little into a more reasonable stance and actually apologised for some of the extreme language she used.

The thing is, they said look at the FACTS about Claire then completely ignored all the canon in favour of speculation - i.e. the fact that Claire has been shown to be a (sometimes dangerously) inexperienced hunter. She nearly killed some poor bloke for snogging his girlfriend, thinking he's a werewolf for gawd's sake. And comparing Claire with young Sam is irrelevant.

[quickreaver]

LANGUAGE AND FACTS MATTER. And this was sorta the thing I was trying to hammer home with her. "Bibro", if one is going to use fandom colloquialisms, needs to be used accurately. The facts of canon, the ones that aren't loosey-goosey and open to interpretation, need to be used accurately. In fact, I think it's fair to cook up a term for people who watch the show for every character BUT Sam and Dean: NoBros. >:-)

[amberdreams]

And to the NoBros we say - what the hell are you doing here then?

[quickreaver]

LOL, hate watching? (Honestly, the same as the rest of us ... hanging on by our fingernails. Maybe they'll all leave and wallow in Wayward, leaving us to the end of our series in peace.)