'Peoples that are not civilized always governed by those who are' When is something civilized? Very very relative. For example, the people from USA are generally put down in the media as civilized (and some are). But when I see sometimes their agressive, arrogant, shouting behaviour at Amsterdam Airport when something is not exactly going as they like at the check-in... Well, OK, these are individuals, but anyway, this example shows the term 'civilized' is very relative.
Reply on PPS: at the Russian border :) Reply on PPPPS: It has an aim, I think. But of course it is political coloured aim, a political streaming. To have Turkey (like Cyprus) in the EU has big political reasons. Anyway, one of the aims is a free movement of citizens in the EU, the freedom to live and work where you want in the EU. Out of my own experience I can say that that is working very well. I can freely go to Germany, to France, Spain, Italy, Austria (and so on), without any border, without being checked. Before it wasn't like this. Reply on PPPPPS: No, but the Cyprus case will be solved for sure, with money (!). They are now pumping millions of Euro's into Turkish Cyprus which will at the end result that living standard of the Turkish Cypriote citizens will be equal or near to equal to the Greek ones. Then the support to keep this separation will be melting away like snow in the sun.... Reply on PPPPPPS: For some people that might be happiness. But it's a fake happiness. People are very 'social animals'. The real happiness they find when they are among other (different) people.
At the end I did it. cuz the last days I'm stuck in my work and studies and everything:((( OK here you are:
I didn't know that the US put down as civilized at least in our media (it's due to old good propaganda probably - the remnant of soviet era), although I was told at school (especially before 91-92) that all americans are barbarians and the stuff like that I don't believe in it. I have some friends in america among the students of the top unis and they're not the way you put it. Actually (my own opinion) it's impossible to generalize the country as one entity (there're many minorities, and people can be good or bad, civilized or not, whatever everywhere in the world. cuz the human nature is the same everywhere) Yeah civilized is very relative but I've just put there Ataturk's expression and as i believe he meant the civilization as the synonym of europeanization.
pps: probably u a right, but with the time moving faster and faster one can never guess what will happen tomorrow (9/11 case)
pppps: the problem's who will pay the bill. Now the main donations come from France, Germany, Netherlands. but with all these recent budget deficits... who knows if they agree to spend more money pppppps: yes, but sometimes loneliness is something we're seek for. Flori, why don't you ever post in lj yourself??? cuz it seems you have so much to tell
Americans are put down as civilized in the media here, which means in the Netherlands and surrounding (a bit an exception: France). I didn't want to generalize the country as one entity. In fact I wanted to point out if you all the time hear that 'they' are great, the best, free people (propaganda of course)then the example from the airport shows painfully the other side. It shows the relativity. I agree with you that the human nature is the same everywhere. Anyway, people are in my opinion more or less coloured by the society where they live in, their backgrounds, the people they meet and, not unimportant, what they choose for.
PPS: If you saw the world 15 years ago it's hard to imagine how it will be in 15 years. Can be everything. ---- I was thinking but the EU already has many kilometers of border now with Russia (Finland, Estonia, Latvia - and Lithuania and Poland as well, with Kaliningrad).
PPPPS: that's something to think about. It depends a lot on in which direction this all the time faster moving goes.
PPPPPPS: Right, another part of the human beings....
My LJ I just created after I came by accident through Loesje Russia at your LJ. I will put some things there soon. This Wednesday I am going with a friend to Serbia (invited for a wedding party :))) and maybe that will bring me some inspiration for the LJ! Btw, last Tuesday I visited Loesje here in the Netherlands, it was fun with them, maybe there will be some cooperation between Loesje and Latisana (and other organizations). They have some creative plans and I as well, so let's see what will be.....
"Anyway, people are in my opinion more or less coloured by the society where they live in, their backgrounds, the people they meet and, not unimportant, what they choose for". - 100% agree))) so human being are all the same but with different background) As for EU&Russia - earlier I was positive about Russia entering EU some time let it e.g. in 50 years or more. but now with mr. putin as a president ( and the strengthening of the government's interference in the private life, business whatever... ) and considering all the history (like tendency to dominate, to conduct rather agressive foreign policy not only in XX but through the ages also)so I don't think the EU will really extend further then russian boarder:)))
btw: LJ was invented by americans. and still in the lj community most users are americans, then, a lot of russians. but it's not so popular among europeans, don't know why.
Loesje visit! that's super! i think the project can be great. when two creative mides come together))) I wish I'd take a part in the project too)))
Serbia's a country I dream to visit one day. For a long time every summer I was telling myself: I'll definetly go to Serbia and ex-Ugoslavia region soon. But still I never did...)))
When is something civilized? Very very relative. For example, the people from USA are generally put down in the media as civilized (and some are). But when I see sometimes their agressive, arrogant, shouting behaviour at Amsterdam Airport when something is not exactly going as they like at the check-in... Well, OK, these are individuals, but anyway, this example shows the term 'civilized' is very relative.
Reply on PPS: at the Russian border :)
Reply on PPPPS: It has an aim, I think. But of course it is political coloured aim, a political streaming. To have Turkey (like Cyprus) in the EU has big political reasons. Anyway, one of the aims is a free movement of citizens in the EU, the freedom to live and work where you want in the EU. Out of my own experience I can say that that is working very well. I can freely go to Germany, to France, Spain, Italy, Austria (and so on), without any border, without being checked. Before it wasn't like this.
Reply on PPPPPS: No, but the Cyprus case will be solved for sure, with money (!). They are now pumping millions of Euro's into Turkish Cyprus which will at the end result that living standard of the Turkish Cypriote citizens will be equal or near to equal to the Greek ones. Then the support to keep this separation will be melting away like snow in the sun....
Reply on PPPPPPS: For some people that might be happiness. But it's a fake happiness. People are very 'social animals'. The real happiness they find when they are among other (different) people.
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Reply
OK here you are:
I didn't know that the US put down as civilized at least in our media (it's due to old good propaganda probably - the remnant of soviet era), although I was told at school (especially before 91-92) that all americans are barbarians and the stuff like that I don't believe in it. I have some friends in america among the students of the top unis and they're not the way you put it. Actually (my own opinion) it's impossible to generalize the country as one entity (there're many minorities, and people can be good or bad, civilized or not, whatever everywhere in the world. cuz the human nature is the same everywhere)
Yeah civilized is very relative but I've just put there Ataturk's expression and as i believe he meant the civilization as the synonym of europeanization.
pps: probably u a right, but with the time moving faster and faster one can never guess what will happen tomorrow (9/11 case)
pppps: the problem's who will pay the bill. Now the main donations come from France, Germany, Netherlands. but with all these recent budget deficits... who knows if they agree to spend more money
pppppps: yes, but sometimes loneliness is something we're seek for.
Flori, why don't you ever post in lj yourself??? cuz it seems you have so much to tell
Reply
PPS: If you saw the world 15 years ago it's hard to imagine how it will be in 15 years. Can be everything. ---- I was thinking but the EU already has many kilometers of border now with Russia (Finland, Estonia, Latvia - and Lithuania and Poland as well, with Kaliningrad).
PPPPS: that's something to think about. It depends a lot on in which direction this all the time faster moving goes.
PPPPPPS: Right, another part of the human beings....
My LJ I just created after I came by accident through Loesje Russia at your LJ. I will put some things there soon. This Wednesday I am going with a friend to Serbia (invited for a wedding party :))) and maybe that will bring me some inspiration for the LJ! Btw, last Tuesday I visited Loesje here in the Netherlands, it was fun with them, maybe there will be some cooperation between Loesje and Latisana (and other organizations). They have some creative plans and I as well, so let's see what will be.....
Reply
As for EU&Russia - earlier I was positive about Russia entering EU some time let it e.g. in 50 years or more. but now with mr. putin as a president ( and the strengthening of the government's interference in the private life, business whatever... ) and considering all the history (like tendency to dominate, to conduct rather agressive foreign policy not only in XX but through the ages also)so I don't think the EU will really extend further then russian boarder:)))
btw: LJ was invented by americans. and still in the lj community most users are americans, then, a lot of russians. but it's not so popular among europeans, don't know why.
Loesje visit! that's super! i think the project can be great. when two creative mides come together))) I wish I'd take a part in the project too)))
Serbia's a country I dream to visit one day. For a long time every summer I was telling myself: I'll definetly go to Serbia and ex-Ugoslavia region soon. But still I never did...)))
Waiting for your posts:)))
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