(no subject)
I don’t think it’s any surprise that the media tornado is spinning the latest
Iraq development way out of context. But in contrast, the development
itself is more of a surprise than I think the world can absorb. I believe this
is a perfect example of why some things are better left unsaid.
There is no way to understand, and put into context some things that happen
during a war. And when parts of these situations are captured, and put on
display - the world is left to it’s own devices as to make sense of it all.
Or rather, the world is left to listen to the only source of explanation that is offered
quickly, and that source has it’s own agenda.
All that is an issue in itself. The thing that brought me here, to type this out
is the topic of prisoner abuse, and the lack of understanding the general public
has on the issue. As they should, but now we are forced to deal with parts
of a world usually left to the ones far back, behind the cameras and eyes.
I’ll say first, that what I believe went on in that prison fits nicely into the more
tame and timid end of the prisoner of war spectrum. That being said, justification
is not completely in order. However, before you let your disgust and rage dictate
your stance, remember that doing so puts you into the category that propagandists
and interrogator’s strive for. Your anger and dismay are fitting into someone’s plan.
Not the original plan, but the plan vultures seizing the scraps of plans gone wrong.
In a nutshell, I believe American intelligence personnel, and contractors working with them utilized very common means of information extraction from individuals motivated
by religious and national fanaticism. Convince them that they are no longer worthy to
sit at the table of their cause’s martyrdom, that they will be viewed as perverted and wretched outcasts, pretending to be just fighters for their rightful cause. Then console them in their grief, and offer the means to escape the certain humiliation waiting for them
when the war is over.
I was not there, and I don’t have any more details than you do. But I can imagine the intelligence personnel convincing the prisoners that the evil Western propaganda machine will distort compromising photos of the prisoners engaged in homosexual activity. Then the story will be broadcast around the world about how American
guards are stunned to find prisoners, going at it like rabbits amongst themselves.
Their families and allies will be stunned to know that instead of sacrificing themselves
to the good of their cause, these men were gratifying themselves and violating the very
holy rules and way of life they were fighting to protect.
That may seem like a stretch to you, but not to them. They don’t have the benefit of
educational advancements like you do, and they are very accustomed to seeing dictators
distort the news. This is exactly the kind of feeling that will make some of these men
start looking to their captors as saviors - and start cooperating. Also, as another method
of thinking - it would be most beneficial to convince these men that if they divulge
information of strategic value to the Americans, then the men that would judge the prisoners for sexual deviance would no longer be an issue, or they would be captured
and understand what is truly going on.
Now - the part about justification.
We need information - badly. We can not utilize very effective methods of information extraction, because they would involve physical harm to the captive.
Every day that goes by with that information locked inside their heads, your brothers in arms are dying. And you are failing them, by not giving them what they need to find the ones that are causing so much trouble. Using psychological means to convince these guys things seems like a pretty humane solution. It’s not like you are blowing up a trashcan
full of metal hardware right next to them or anything.
I don’t believe that the pictures were TOTALLY staged. Sure, I can see the MPs being
instructed to put the captives in compromising and embarrassing situations, and act like you are taking pictures of it. I could even see them taking real pictures - and altering them digitally to look like the captives worst nightmare is ready to go up on TV screens across the world. But the control of this action was seriously compromised if the pictures left the physical area. The very fact that the pictures were compromised shows a failure
in leadership. And - from a few pictures that I saw - The MPs were enjoying their role
more than they should.
I cannot pass judgment on that, but I can on the failure to keep pictures like that controlled, and within the context of the local situation. Personally I believe that
methods like the ones I just detailed are acceptable. We even train our commandos
and air crews how to deal with methods EXACTLY like that - why? Because they are
widely used, and not in violation of a captives physical well being. But really now -
I’ve been on high school athletic teams that treat their freshman worse than what was on those pictures. Some military units treat their cherries (new guys) much worse than that.
And from the information I have, Arab militants have some horrific ways of proving loyalty to each other - that make those pictures look like a Sunday School picnic.
Iraq development way out of context. But in contrast, the development
itself is more of a surprise than I think the world can absorb. I believe this
is a perfect example of why some things are better left unsaid.
There is no way to understand, and put into context some things that happen
during a war. And when parts of these situations are captured, and put on
display - the world is left to it’s own devices as to make sense of it all.
Or rather, the world is left to listen to the only source of explanation that is offered
quickly, and that source has it’s own agenda.
All that is an issue in itself. The thing that brought me here, to type this out
is the topic of prisoner abuse, and the lack of understanding the general public
has on the issue. As they should, but now we are forced to deal with parts
of a world usually left to the ones far back, behind the cameras and eyes.
I’ll say first, that what I believe went on in that prison fits nicely into the more
tame and timid end of the prisoner of war spectrum. That being said, justification
is not completely in order. However, before you let your disgust and rage dictate
your stance, remember that doing so puts you into the category that propagandists
and interrogator’s strive for. Your anger and dismay are fitting into someone’s plan.
Not the original plan, but the plan vultures seizing the scraps of plans gone wrong.
In a nutshell, I believe American intelligence personnel, and contractors working with them utilized very common means of information extraction from individuals motivated
by religious and national fanaticism. Convince them that they are no longer worthy to
sit at the table of their cause’s martyrdom, that they will be viewed as perverted and wretched outcasts, pretending to be just fighters for their rightful cause. Then console them in their grief, and offer the means to escape the certain humiliation waiting for them
when the war is over.
I was not there, and I don’t have any more details than you do. But I can imagine the intelligence personnel convincing the prisoners that the evil Western propaganda machine will distort compromising photos of the prisoners engaged in homosexual activity. Then the story will be broadcast around the world about how American
guards are stunned to find prisoners, going at it like rabbits amongst themselves.
Their families and allies will be stunned to know that instead of sacrificing themselves
to the good of their cause, these men were gratifying themselves and violating the very
holy rules and way of life they were fighting to protect.
That may seem like a stretch to you, but not to them. They don’t have the benefit of
educational advancements like you do, and they are very accustomed to seeing dictators
distort the news. This is exactly the kind of feeling that will make some of these men
start looking to their captors as saviors - and start cooperating. Also, as another method
of thinking - it would be most beneficial to convince these men that if they divulge
information of strategic value to the Americans, then the men that would judge the prisoners for sexual deviance would no longer be an issue, or they would be captured
and understand what is truly going on.
Now - the part about justification.
We need information - badly. We can not utilize very effective methods of information extraction, because they would involve physical harm to the captive.
Every day that goes by with that information locked inside their heads, your brothers in arms are dying. And you are failing them, by not giving them what they need to find the ones that are causing so much trouble. Using psychological means to convince these guys things seems like a pretty humane solution. It’s not like you are blowing up a trashcan
full of metal hardware right next to them or anything.
I don’t believe that the pictures were TOTALLY staged. Sure, I can see the MPs being
instructed to put the captives in compromising and embarrassing situations, and act like you are taking pictures of it. I could even see them taking real pictures - and altering them digitally to look like the captives worst nightmare is ready to go up on TV screens across the world. But the control of this action was seriously compromised if the pictures left the physical area. The very fact that the pictures were compromised shows a failure
in leadership. And - from a few pictures that I saw - The MPs were enjoying their role
more than they should.
I cannot pass judgment on that, but I can on the failure to keep pictures like that controlled, and within the context of the local situation. Personally I believe that
methods like the ones I just detailed are acceptable. We even train our commandos
and air crews how to deal with methods EXACTLY like that - why? Because they are
widely used, and not in violation of a captives physical well being. But really now -
I’ve been on high school athletic teams that treat their freshman worse than what was on those pictures. Some military units treat their cherries (new guys) much worse than that.
And from the information I have, Arab militants have some horrific ways of proving loyalty to each other - that make those pictures look like a Sunday School picnic.