Flyers & Demons & Baddies, oh my!
I'm going to post her an abridged conversation that occurred on THE SORCERER'S WORLD awhile back, having to do with flyers, the foreign installation, and our conclusions about them. Sometimes I have found that we need to question not so much WHAT we experiece, but the CONCLUSIONS and mythos we form AROUND those experiences. In that manner, the assemblage point doesn't become fixed on a single idea - fluidity is maintained.
Seems to me that if we are going to talk about IOBs and flyers and the FI, we simply MUST speak from the standpoint of our own personal experience. What is YOUR definition of "the foreign installation"? What is your own PERSONAL experience with inorganic beings??
So this is an invitation to really examine what you KNOW about IOBs, and what is a self-perpetuating belief system. Why bother? Simple. It is only in undoing our beliefs - ALL of them - that we begin to arrive at some sort of accurate view of what is, because let's face it, most of our "belief systems" are rooted iether in fear or a foundation of what I call "false power". For example, if I believe I can protect myself from "the devil" by casting a great encompassing rainbow light around my head... chances are I am selling myself short on at least two or three levels. 1) I am ASSUMING "the devil" exists; and 2) I am buying into the self-important belief system which would tell me I am "important" enough for the devil to concern himself with; and 3) I am further assuming that I NEED protection from "the devil." What would make me think HE doesn't need protection from ME?
Point simply being... to what extent does what we BELIEVE about the flyers, the IOBs and the ineffable contribute to our potentially creating the very baddies we believe are out there?
D
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"T" wrote:
From experience, there is another possible answer. Sometimes the flyers make you miss something in plain vision and then see it again a few seconds afterwards, to mess with you, try to get some negative emotional egocentric reaction from you.
Quantum Shaman: How can "the flyers" MAKE you miss something? IMHO, attributing such things to flyers is not unlike crediting the boogeyman for "temptation". Take back your power.
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Quantum Shaman: The monkey had run out of jungle, and by his own will, chose to emerge into a new world.
W wrote: I have a different view, intent a movement of the force of alignment out of the trees. Happened because, our life force has been forcefully aligned, our intent had been circumvented by a preditor.
In CC's own words
Quote:
In exchange for our energy, the flyers have given us our mind, our attachments and our ego. For them, we are not the their slaves, but a kind of salaried workers. They bestowed these privileges on a primitive race and gave us the gift of thinking, which made us evolve, indeed, they have civilized us. If not for them, we would still be hiding in caves or making nests on treetops.
So to me at least, the task, is not one of pushing the envelope, but pushing through a energetic membrane, and in this way, leaving behind the eddy, our energetic mass is trapped in.
Quantum Shaman:
Much has been written on the subject of the flyers and the predator mind and the foreign installation... and yet...
And yet...
In many ways, it seems all too convenient to be able to assign "blame" to the flyers in the same way xtianity assigns blame to the devil, or in the same way some belief systems assign blame to "karma".
I'm not saying the flyers don't exist - but all too often, it just seems that "the predator mind" or "the flyers" may be invoked as a way to explain away certain things, or even to try to comfort ourselves by saying, "Oh, it's not my fault. I'm a victim of the foreign installation."
For the record, it seems to me that the so-called "predator mind" is really little more than an extension of the hive mind of the consensus reality. It doesn't have to be "foreign" in order to be debilitating. We do quite well at that all by ourselves, alas. Our programming begins before we are ever out of the womb, and requires no external help, near as I can tell.
Can I see the possibility of a foreign installation? Sure - but it is not my first conclusion, because at a very basic level, it doesn't make a lot of sense. The theory is that the flyers nibble our energy and the foreign installation keeps us docile (loosely paraphrased, but essentially correct). But as we've discussed many times, energy is prevalent in this strange & wondrous universe. Why would any self-respecting flyer need to nibble my toes when it could just as easily (more easily!) feed on the energy of the sun or the wind or the rushing river or the erupting volcano?
Just a question - but I think it is a reasonable question, asked with open heart.
It just seems like more humanform self-importance to think that these flyers or other inorganic beings would NEED to feed on humans, when they are allegedly already immortal, and would seemingly have access to far more easily attainable food sources.
Perhaps I should also mention that I am not a "believer" in Castaneda. By that, I simply mean that I value what he has written, am grateful to him for his works, but at the same time, I would be doing a disservice to him AND TO MYSELF if I were to simply and blindly accept everything he said without testing it for myself.
Having done a lot of that testing, I have yet to really see ANY evidence of "flyers". I do see evidence of what is referred to as a "foreign installation", yet my feeling is that the evidence is real, but the CONCLUSIONS drawn may be entirely fairy tale in nature. The foreign installation MAY well be just a false reflection of the hive mind - i.e., a programmed manifestation of the consensus. In fact, ALL evidence points strongly in precisely that direction.
Don't get me wrong - I'm all for exploring possibilities. And I'm just pointing out here that our first obligation is to kick the tires for ourselves. Don't take Carlos' word for it. Don't take my word for it. If you tell me you've seen flyers, I won't disbelieve you - but I will tell you in the same breath that I myself have not seen any such beings despite many years on the path and many excursions into the otherworlds of inorganic beings. I have seen the black shapes which appear to be ...???... but I have not drawn the conclusion that this is a "flyer" anymore than I would draw the conclusion that an eclipse would portend the end of the world.
So, with that in mind, I continue the search and the journey - not just to see where it will lead, but to see what I am capable of creating in the process. Maybe we create "flyers" by believing they are out there. Maybe we fall under the manipulations of the foreign installation by believing it exists. If thoughts are energy and energy is the stuff of creation, I think we need to be very careful what we "agree" to create just because somebody said it's there.
W wrote:
Just so you know, I can see flyers, and saw them long before there was any mention of them. That you have not seen them, and yet seem very high energetic being I find troubling to say the least.
Quantum Shaman:
With regard to the flyers and me not seeing them... perhaps my statement was misleading. I have seen what CC refers to as "the flyers", but I simply do not draw the same conclusions. I do not necessarily feel or intuit that these IBs have any interest in humans whatsoever. Whatever they are, they are obviously "real"... but I have come to question whether it is only humanform self-importance that makes us think *we* are the focus of *their* world. Somehow... I rather doubt it. But, hey, that's just me.
W wrote: You see food very much in a human form of need and sustenance, so maybe this can help. We watch movies, we pick movies that reflect our basic level of awareness, we enjoy that movie or not at an emotional connection that feels right, we cry, experience fear, love, compassion, beauty and popcorn. All of these are energy, a vibration a force. If you can see inorganic beings as entities that project themselves into our movies /life and create a flow energetically that suites them more than us you can catch a glimpse at least of how I see this energy Theft.
It surprises me that you seem unaware that some inorganic beings are drawn to and by emotion.
Quantum Shaman: It surprises me that you would conclude that such is the case.
I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong, but I'm also not going to just blindly agree with you or CC or anyone else when I myself have simply not experienced it in this manner whatsoever. Why is it necessary to blame our emotions for attracting flyers? Isn't that like saying, "Flies create garbage?" *heh* Upon WHAT do you base your conclusions? I'm not looking for quotes from books here. I'm asking YOU what you have experienced that would cause YOU to conclude that inorganic beings are attracted to your emotions.
Which brings me to a point - that being that what I am hoping to do with this forum, at least in part, is to talk about what each of us has experienced as individuals on our solitary journeys. I already know what Castaneda said. I already know what Ruiz and Sanchez said. Now it's time to talk about what WE have experienced, and where we MIGHT be able to take it.
You say there are flyers? Okay... tell me why you believe it. If it's just a belief system, that's okay, but be willing to say so. If it's based on personal experience, be willing to discuss it, or this may all be just one more waste of time. *shrug*
W wrote: It seems very human form to see energy transfer in the simplistic terms you express!
Quantum Shaman: Again, you are delving WAY deep into the realm of speculation. In short, you are attempting to assign humanform meaning to inorganic beings, and that doesn't track with me. While I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm simply asking you to stop and really THINK about what you are saying here, because it really sounds like a heavy-duty belief system. We've discussed many times that no one can *steal* your energy.
W wrote: A sail uses wind, cars use for the most part gas, cows eat grass, birds eat pebbles, and Pandas can eat only a certain type of bamboo the sun consumes hydrogen. We vibrate energetically in a way that something as you say "in this large universe" is able to metabolize.
Quantum Shaman: Er - says who? Pardon me for saying so, but this is all little more than speculation. We can say, "Well, the old seers said so, and that's good enough for me," but isn't that the same thing as saying, "Jesus said so and that makes it true?"
I understand the analogies quite fine. It's the LOGIC that remains flawed, imho. The universe doesn't NEED to metabolize anything. It's the universe, after all.
To think we are some yummy snack for the universe just seems filled with humanform self-importance. No offense, nothing personal... just what is from my perspective.
W wrote: You know I don't like speculation any more than you. I also try my very best to not say/claim anything beyond my own personal energetic achievements. I know this end of the road of which you speak, and I also except that one does not need to believe in flyers to get to this point. I thought this before I ever read the name Quantum Shaman.
Now to move on, even though I can see flyers, seeing them does not mean that they automatically have the attributes attributed to them
Quantum Shaman: This is getting closer to addressing my point. When someone says they have seen flyers, I have no doubt that this is true. What I DO question is where the CONCLUSIONS come from. CC, for example, claims the flyers nibble our energy. But has that been YOUR experience? It's a legitimate question. I have also seen flyers, but I haven't experienced this "nibbling" of energy described by CC. Who knows? Maybe I just don't taste good. *heh* That would be a good thing.
W wrote: As far as the monkeys striking out from the trees, from their own act of will is firmly in the area of speculation as anything I put forth. Evolution is not always an act of will, but can also be an adaption to circumstances environmental or ................
So if you choose to reply to this post understand that, this is my last post in response to you about this.
Quantum Shaman: My point is simply this: if we are going to talk about things such as flyers, I am only asking that the discussion be geared in the direction of what you yourself have experienced. It's really the only way to avoid getting stuck in a spiral of competing belief systems. For example: I can tell you precisely why I "believe" what I do about the double - and it will be based in my own experiences, not what I was "told" by CC or anyone else. I could just walk around accepting CC's words about the double or the flyers or inorganic beings, but it is through my own experience of these things that I am able to create my own direct knowledge and form my own "conclusions" (with the caveat that even our conclusions need to remain fluid).
So - all I'm saying is that if we're going to talk about this stuff, I'd be REALLY interested in hearing YOUR experience of it. I don't think that's too much to ask, nor do I think it's unreasonable, do you?
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