New York Times ridicules Qataris

May 14, 2010 22:34

Today's New York Times published a rather biting article about the conflict between Qataris and non-Qataris in Qatar: Affluent Qataris Seek What Money Cannot Buy.

Qataris' and non-Qataris' stereotypes of each other is something I've been thinking about a lot this summer, between the Lisa Clayton kerfuffle and the recent arguments over on Mimiz ( Read more... )

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Infantile NY Times anonymous May 15 2010, 15:37:16 UTC
Hi Marjorie ( ... )

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Re: Infantile NY Times qatar May 15 2010, 19:41:35 UTC
"I doubt that any of the quotes they are getting are in fact what the interviewees said at all."

I agree with you that the article has a hostile slant, but I don't see any reason to think they made up the quotes.

"It is Qatar's money that they are banking and sending home to loved ones, so i think gratitude and a sense of perspective should be the order of the day, don't you?"

Frankly, no. I have enjoyed my years in Qatar and feel generally positive about what this country is doing, but I don't think I ought to feel "gratitude" that I get paid. I earn my pay; it's not charity. I think immigrants ought to be free to be frank about the things they love and the things they dislike about their adopted country; that should be true for Moroccans who are upset about the burqa ban in France, and it should be true for Americans who are upset about the family day policies in Qatar.

"I challenge anyone to refute that Qataris are, on balance, welcoming and respectful to their guests.If by "guests" you mean skilled Western expats, I agree ( ... )

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Re: Infantile NY Times anonymous May 16 2010, 20:42:21 UTC
"I agree with you that the article has a hostile slant, but I don't see any reason to think they made up the quotes ( ... )

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Re: Infantile NY Times qatar May 16 2010, 21:07:12 UTC
"No doubt you do earn your pay Marjorie but I bet Qatar pays you an awful lot more than your home country would."

I took a pay cut to move to Qatar, thank you very much.

"Remember that while you contend with a lot of frustrations living here, Qataris are also contending with their own frustrations with respect to its expatriate population."

Oh, I very much agree. Just a couple hours ago I was chatting with someone about what Maryam said over at Mimiz Blog about feeling powerless over the way her government chooses to spend her money... that must be intensely frustrating. When have I said Qataris don't have frustrations?

"Don't be too keen to judge Marjorie. Let Qataris be the ones to have that conversation. Taking the moral high-ground is so typically expat."You seem to be arguing that nobody should be able to comment on a culture in any meaningful way unless they're an insider. I think that doesn't work. Or do you think only Americans should be able to have an opinion on whether Bush was a good president or not ( ... )

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Re: Infantile NY Times anonymous May 17 2010, 12:48:23 UTC
"Immigrants often have insight into the successes and failures of a culture that people who grew up there don't have, just as Alexis de Tocqueville was able to give a more insightful view of 19th century America than an American could have done."

Marjorie, since we started this string of debate, let me add my final word. I know you don't mean to be condescending but this is cringeworthy stuff that you're writing. Your "insight" into our culture is not required, thanks. And I maintain that non-Qataris don't have a right to judge Qatar - because believe it or not Qataris are intelligent enough to do it for themselves as you can see by some of the Qatari posters here.

All the best.

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Re: Infantile NY Times qatar May 17 2010, 12:52:43 UTC
Well obviously the views of immigrants aren't a SUBSTITUTE for the views of residents, but I think it's frankly absurd to assert that outsiders aren't ALLOWED to have opinions about cultures. Do you not have an opinion on female genital mutilation in Africa? Do you not have an opinion about whether the rape of Nanking or the My Lai massacre was OK? We make judgments all the time about things that other cultures do. Obviously we should be very careful when we do so, to make sure we understand the context, but I think it's extremely naive to pretend that we don't or shouldn't make those judgments at all.

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Re: Infantile NY Times anonymous May 17 2010, 14:01:11 UTC
I think for a Westerner to come in and offer her "insight" into a Muslim culture is frankly laughable.

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Re: Infantile NY Times anonymous May 17 2010, 16:13:20 UTC
Based on your advocacy of moral relativism, I guess you can't object to a claim like: "I think for an Arab to come and offer her "insight" into a secular humanist/Christian/Hebrew culture is frankly laughable."

I guess I'll remember that the next time I hear a Qatari complain about
- Banning the veil in France (Frenchies this; Frenchies that") or
- Being racially profiled by U.S. customs and police ("Yankies this; Yankies that") or
- Those checkpoints on Israel sovereign territory ("Jewy this; Jewy that") or
- That the rest of the world finds the thought of a Qatar-hosted World Cup hilarious ("Beckham this; Beckham that").

It is mildly surprising to learn that you believe the opinions of the Qatari are completely irrelevant to anything involving the outside world.

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Re: Infantile NY Times anonymous May 17 2010, 12:52:48 UTC
You're judging non-Qataris right now. If you get to judge non-Qataris, they get to judge you. Cope.

As for what's "required", well hell, your idiocy is not required. Say something worth reading and quit wasting our time.

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(The comment has been removed)

Re: Infantile NY Times anonymous May 17 2010, 22:15:15 UTC
Jerkface, I actually had something worthwhile to say. Maybe you should go read it again. This comment of yours was pointless, though.

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Re: Infantile NY Times anonymous May 17 2010, 12:56:06 UTC
What's a "right", anyway?

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Re: Infantile NY Times anonymous May 19 2010, 07:55:44 UTC
Insight:
1. an instance of apprehending the true nature of a thing, esp. through intuitive understanding
2. penetrating mental vision or discernment; faculty of seeing into inner character or underlying truth.
3.Psychology.
a.an understanding of relationships that sheds light on or helps solve a problem.
b.(in psychotherapy) the recognition of sources of emotional difficulty.
c. an understanding of the motivational forces behind one's actions, thoughts, or behavior; self-knowledge.

Please elaborate on your "ability to apprehend the true nature" of Qatari and/or Muslim culture, your "intuitive understanding", "penetrating mental vision" and "faculty of seeing into inner character and underlying truth" of the Qatari and/or Muslim culture. Please explain, in addition, how many deep and close Qatari friendships you have forged in order to support this marvellous "insight".

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Re: Infantile NY Times qatar May 19 2010, 08:47:40 UTC
I never said I had insight on Qatari culture. I made a general point that immigrants sometimes have insights that insiders don't, and I was making that comment in the context of NON-Americans having insight into AMERICAN culture.

I think this is the central point you're missing here about my argument. I'm not saying white people should tell non-white people how to run their countries; I'm saying that the views of immigrants of any type should not be summarily dismissed simply because they're immigrants. I suspect you agree that it's xenophobic and racist when Arizonans do that to Mexicans and when French do it to Moroccans. What is different when Qataris do it to Indians or Germans?

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Re: Infantile NY Times anonymous May 19 2010, 08:54:45 UTC
How convenient -- and sad, really -- that you think nobody but a Qatari passport holder is capable of exhibiting "an understanding of relationships that sheds light on or helps solve a problems".

But you're probably right. I am sure that Saif Saeed Assad and Salem Jaber have a much deeper understanding of life here than an interested foreigner who has spent years working with and educating local young people. ;-)

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Re: Infantile NY Times anonymous May 17 2010, 11:23:14 UTC
Hey moron, lots of people go to Qatar and make about what they'd make at home.

Do you think people only go there for the big paycheck? Are you saying Qatar is a dump, and there's no other reason to go there? How pathetic.

"The people it brings in to join in that process do nothing but belittle and criticize the country and the locals..." <-- Do any of these people exist? I never met one.

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