While I was away from Qatar over the holidays, what one journalist has called a "national cultural war" broke out over an online post by a friend of mine
( Read more... )
Oh come on!!!
anonymous
January 24 2010, 17:17:08 UTC
You say you believe in 'freedom of speech', the type that encompasses the right to say offensive things, but doesn't that entail the freedom of people being able to express/respond to her post as well? Lisa chose to jot down her thoughts of her own free will, but somehow she wasn't ready for the effect it would garner? like the saying goes, if you can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen! if she has the freedom to jot down her thoughts, people too have the freedom to express themselves and react to her post! and the fact of the matter is, the tone of her post WAS arrogant, she WAS grossly stereotyping, and her words WERE offensive, as she repeatedly admitted herself! The fact remains, she should have been wiser in her choice of words, even if she was supposedly in an emotional state of mind when she wrote the post, and consequently she could have spared herself the whole fiasco!
Moreover, I think it's a double edged sword when it comes to freedom of speech. You of all people should know how hundreds upon thousands of muslims and Arabs are taunted, ridiculed, humiliated, stereotyped, badly treated..etc on a daily basis in Western countries, and yet your disappointed and saddened by one incident in which the instigator was self-admittedly at fault? Am I the only one detecting the irony here?! Sure, I agree that some of the responses towards Lisa were exaggerated and blown out of proportion. Making threats and reacting violently is reprehensible, but you failed to mention that there were also many Qatari's who were in full agreement with what Lisa said, just not how she said it!
Your right in that what an American means by freedom of speech and what a Qatari means by freedom of speech are not necessarily the same thing. Arab culture dictates that when a guest enters the hosts home, they display their utmost respect, humility and gratitude towards the host and they will be duly treated in return. You have to handle yourself with politeness and courtesy, and you can certainly express or feel free to say whatever you wish, as long as it is within the boundaries of respect. If ,however, you choose to cross the line and insult your host, then the host holds the right to respond accordingly. That is precisely what happened in Lisa's case! she (guest) transgressed her boundaries and Qatari's (hosts) reacted accordingly!
Finally, I wish to clarify a few things that I thought were a bit misleading. As far as I know, Lisa wasn't fired from her workplace as a result of this incident, rather her contract was terminated before this hoopla even happened! moreover, some people were under the impression that she was banned from QatarLiving.com, the forum that her post originated from, as a result of this incident, where in fact she was banned by the moderators at her own request. In my opinion, her attempt at playing the 'victim' card is disingenuous and I think she should own up to her mistake without pointing fingers!
Re: Oh come on!!!qatarJanuary 24 2010, 18:05:19 UTC
Oh, I completely think people should have the freedom to disagree with Lisa, and to voice that disagreement. You might have noticed I never argued with people in the anti-Lisa group: they voiced their disagreement, asked for an apology, and got it. But when it comes to people calling for government censorship of Qatar Living, that's plain misguided. They've the right to ask for it, but I think they should think through what kind of society they're asking for.
As for being a "guest," Lisa has lived in Qatar for 11 years. She converted to Islam and married a Khaleeji. If she is still a "guest," then what that tells me is that there is no way for someone not of Qatari blood EVER to be seen as anything other than an outsider. How you can build a society that is 80% foreigners if there's no way for them ever to have ANY input or opinions about anything?
Here's what I can say about myself, as an outsider. Seeing how Lisa was treated when she made a MILD criticism of DRIVING HABITS has made me realize exactly how much outsiders are valued here. And that makes me significantly less personally invested in this country. I think it's unfortunate to pay a lot of money to bring people into your country to help build capacity, and then treat them in such a way that they no longer care whether they make a positive contribution or not.
Re: Oh come on!!!
anonymous
January 24 2010, 19:09:44 UTC
"mild"? I think that's precisely where we differ! It is your personal opinion against hundreds of Qatari's who thought Lisa's post was in fact extreme! Are you suggesting that the many Qatari's who were offended by Lisa's post were all overreacting because you personally thought it was 'mild'?!
As for Lisa living here for over a decade, I think you just need to look around you to know that Qatar boasts a rich and diverse plethora of nationalities, and that's not going to change anytime soon! you said it yourself, Qatar is made up of approximately 80% foreigners, some of which have settled here far longer than Lisa did, bringing their families, extended families to ive here and even becoming naturalized citizens who consider Qatar to be their home. Many of them even attend universities in education city, including yours, which you should know, so where is this "there is no way for someone not of Qatari blood EVER to be seen as anything other than an outsider" coming from????! Many Qatari's and residents alike criticize Qatar openly but they choose to do so in a constructive and respectful manner, rather than spouting stereotypical, insulting remarks! Doesn't what you just said make you guilty of the generalizations you advocate against???? Qatari's aren't a homogenous, one dimensional group of people! we are as diverse as the colors of the rainbow, which you should also know by now, but we're united by our love and devotion for our country, which we won't hesitate to stand up for if necessary!
Your last paragraph gave me the impression that Qatari's should be thanking their lucky stars that someone such as yourself is in in Qatar, and that we owe it to you that money is flowing into Qatar! correct me if I'm wrong, but have you ever been treated badly or disrespectfully by a Qatari in your workplace or elsewhere? have you for the most part have had bad experiences with Qatari's, or done anything to indicate that we treat outsiders/expats/foreigners with little value like you claim? isnt education city a living example of co-operation and co-existence between locals and expats? so where, pray tell, is this 'outsider's aren't valued' statement coming from? you forgot to mention that the expat/local relationship is a reciprocal one. For the expertise, knowledge and skills expats bring into the country, they get a lot of benefits in return! it's not as simple as 'it's unfortunate to pay a lot of money to bring people into our country to help build capacity'!!
Lastly, you make 'guest' sound like an insult! when I say 'guest' I regard that person with the highest esteem, which is how our culture and religion instructs us to! we ought to treat guests better than we would treat ourselves, and that is the example set forth by our beloved Prophet Mohammed PBUH...we don't view 'guests' as outsiders as you falsely described! that is not at all what I meant. Guests are to be respected and honored, to be treated as if they were one of our own family members, but when someone abuses their welcome, that is where we draw the line and they should therefore expect to suffer the repercussions! Also, as you alluded Lisa has been here for many many years, even converting to Islam and marrying a khaleeji...that is precisely why she should have had a better understanding and awareness of what to say and choosing the right words! and from what I read of her previous online posts on QL and other places, she has criticized Qatar numerous times before and has gotten away with it scot free! so, I reiterate, it's not about foreigners not having any input or opinions about anything like you claim, because criticism is good and it happens here often, but HOW you say it!
Re: Oh come on!!!qatarJanuary 24 2010, 20:30:04 UTC
As I said in my post, I honestly don't understand why people reacted so strongly to Lisa's post. She didn't say "all Qataris are obnoxious drivers," she just described the kinds of attitudes she saw on National Day. If she'd written the exact same words about the 4th of July in my hometown, I would not have been offended, let alone called for her to be deported. I am obviously missing something important in how Qataris read her words.
I do have quite a few non-Qatari friends who grew up in Qatar. The ones I've talked to about it DO very much feel like outsiders here. Just last week someone who grew up here was telling me they were glad their close friendship with a Qatari had ended, because they felt judged all the time and now don't believe it's realistic to try to be friends with a Qatari. It made me really sad to hear that. I'm not saying that person was justified in saying that -- I'm just saying that, actually, I think it's possible that more non-Qataris here feel alienated than you realize. (Of course, ones who feel alienated may be more likely to talk to me about it, so my sample may be skewed.)
Regarding treatment of foreigners, I guess the approaches I can best compare are the American and European approaches, since I'm both of those. :-) I'm not going to claim that either of my cultures is tremendously good at how it treats foreigners, but I think America is better at it than Europe. Europe wants to import cheap labor from Turkey, Morocco, etc., but without actually changing the society to accommodate the outsiders' views. (Just look at France's idiotic and xenophobic decision this week!) America, in contrast, has a tradition of incorporating waves of immigrants into its own culture (although also a tradition of being really mean to them before they assimilate, which is not so good). Comparing those two cultures makes me value that America has at least TRIED to incorporate outsiders, even though we also have often failed to live up to that ideal. I think that Qatar is trying to be more like Europe, to bring people in from everywhere but without letting them become Qatari. I have reservations about how effective that is, because I see it being so ineffective in Europe.
I certainly didn't mean to imply Qatar should thank its lucky stars for me or other expats. I'm here to do a job, and if I weren't do it someone else would be. I'm nothing special. What I was trying to get across is that I think you can create a more effective workforce if your workers feel like they matter to the larger community. So, it's in the community's interests to make people feel valued, so they will want to contribute. Maybe it's not always necessary. I once interviewed a construction worker who beamed and said, "I am making this city great!", even though the city rewards him by not allowing him to visit the malls or souq or corniche on weekends. But for a lot of us, at least, we can contribute more if we feel like our contributions and ideas are valued. So I was saying that, for me personally, this last month has made me feel less valued, and that makes it hard for me to give Qatar its money's worth. :-)
On a side note, thank you for posting! I know I'm being argumentative, because that's how I am, but I feel like I'm learning a lot from you.
Re: Oh come on!!!dachteJanuary 25 2010, 19:46:34 UTC
Having read Lisa's original post, it did look to me like she was trolling a bit - her statements were overly broad and unnecessarily insulting. It felt like she was letting off steam - the kind of post that one ideally should self-censor a bit after one posts (if one must pust it). Posting it somewhere else in addition to her blog was kind of asking for trouble - it's taking the behind-closed-doors-catharsis and putting it up on a banner. I doubt she actually meant her words in the stronger sense, even if there's a lot of reasonable meaning that she probably *did* mean. Stuff like "So what if they endanger their own life or the lives of others? As long as they show off for QATAR NATIONAL DAY!!!!" is not something one says or means in ordinary life.
Are Qataris right to be offended? Maybe, but the public life/private life distinction in Arab culture is there too - this is something accidentally slipping from one side of the curtain to another, done by someone they'll probably always see as an outsider, from a culture that has a somewhat thinner curtain than they do. Would Americans be offended at that? Maybe a bit (and American conservatives as a rule would probably be much more offended than American liberals).
Anonymous reader, are people who come to Qatar and marry a Qatari guests forever? When do they join the family (if ever)? Is it the tone of her criticism that's the problem, or that she offered criticism?
Re: Oh come on!!!qatarFebruary 3 2010, 10:39:11 UTC
I'm not sure if you'll come back to read this, but it has been niggling at me all week that I didn't respond to this sentence:
"have you for the most part have had bad experiences with Qatari's, or done anything to indicate that we treat outsiders/expats/foreigners with little value like you claim?"
I agree with you that WESTERN expats are usually treated as valuable. However, I've done quite a bit of research since moving here on the experiences of low-skilled laborers who come to Qatar, and, as a group, they are DEFINITELY treated as though they have as though they have little value. I'm not claiming every construction company mistreats its workers or every household abuses its nanny, but abuse is definitely rampant, and the legal checks on those abuses are, though improving, still paltry.
So what you say about treating guests well is almost always true when it comes to Westerners (as long as we don't say anything disagreeable), but I honestly don't think it's fair to say that MOST foreigners who come to Qatar are treated as valued and honored guests.
Moreover, I think it's a double edged sword when it comes to freedom of speech. You of all people should know how hundreds upon thousands of muslims and Arabs are taunted, ridiculed, humiliated, stereotyped, badly treated..etc on a daily basis in Western countries, and yet your disappointed and saddened by one incident in which the instigator was self-admittedly at fault? Am I the only one detecting the irony here?! Sure, I agree that some of the responses towards Lisa were exaggerated and blown out of proportion. Making threats and reacting violently is reprehensible, but you failed to mention that there were also many Qatari's who were in full agreement with what Lisa said, just not how she said it!
Your right in that what an American means by freedom of speech and what a Qatari means by freedom of speech are not necessarily the same thing. Arab culture dictates that when a guest enters the hosts home, they display their utmost respect, humility and gratitude towards the host and they will be duly treated in return. You have to handle yourself with politeness and courtesy, and you can certainly express or feel free to say whatever you wish, as long as it is within the boundaries of respect. If ,however, you choose to cross the line and insult your host, then the host holds the right to respond accordingly. That is precisely what happened in Lisa's case! she (guest) transgressed her boundaries and Qatari's (hosts) reacted accordingly!
Finally, I wish to clarify a few things that I thought were a bit misleading. As far as I know, Lisa wasn't fired from her workplace as a result of this incident, rather her contract was terminated before this hoopla even happened! moreover, some people were under the impression that she was banned from QatarLiving.com, the forum that her post originated from, as a result of this incident, where in fact she was banned by the moderators at her own request. In my opinion, her attempt at playing the 'victim' card is disingenuous and I think she should own up to her mistake without pointing fingers!
Regards,
A peaceful, tolerant and educated Qatari =)
Reply
As for being a "guest," Lisa has lived in Qatar for 11 years. She converted to Islam and married a Khaleeji. If she is still a "guest," then what that tells me is that there is no way for someone not of Qatari blood EVER to be seen as anything other than an outsider. How you can build a society that is 80% foreigners if there's no way for them ever to have ANY input or opinions about anything?
Here's what I can say about myself, as an outsider. Seeing how Lisa was treated when she made a MILD criticism of DRIVING HABITS has made me realize exactly how much outsiders are valued here. And that makes me significantly less personally invested in this country. I think it's unfortunate to pay a lot of money to bring people into your country to help build capacity, and then treat them in such a way that they no longer care whether they make a positive contribution or not.
Reply
As for Lisa living here for over a decade, I think you just need to look around you to know that Qatar boasts a rich and diverse plethora of nationalities, and that's not going to change anytime soon! you said it yourself, Qatar is made up of approximately 80% foreigners, some of which have settled here far longer than Lisa did, bringing their families, extended families to ive here and even becoming naturalized citizens who consider Qatar to be their home. Many of them even attend universities in education city, including yours, which you should know, so where is this "there is no way for someone not of Qatari blood EVER to be seen as anything other than an outsider" coming from????! Many Qatari's and residents alike criticize Qatar openly but they choose to do so in a constructive and respectful manner, rather than spouting stereotypical, insulting remarks! Doesn't what you just said make you guilty of the generalizations you advocate against???? Qatari's aren't a homogenous, one dimensional group of people! we are as diverse as the colors of the rainbow, which you should also know by now, but we're united by our love and devotion for our country, which we won't hesitate to stand up for if necessary!
Your last paragraph gave me the impression that Qatari's should be thanking their lucky stars that someone such as yourself is in in Qatar, and that we owe it to you that money is flowing into Qatar! correct me if I'm wrong, but have you ever been treated badly or disrespectfully by a Qatari in your workplace or elsewhere? have you for the most part have had bad experiences with Qatari's, or done anything to indicate that we treat outsiders/expats/foreigners with little value like you claim? isnt education city a living example of co-operation and co-existence between locals and expats? so where, pray tell, is this 'outsider's aren't valued' statement coming from? you forgot to mention that the expat/local relationship is a reciprocal one. For the expertise, knowledge and skills expats bring into the country, they get a lot of benefits in return! it's not as simple as 'it's unfortunate to pay a lot of money to bring people into our country to help build capacity'!!
Lastly, you make 'guest' sound like an insult! when I say 'guest' I regard that person with the highest esteem, which is how our culture and religion instructs us to! we ought to treat guests better than we would treat ourselves, and that is the example set forth by our beloved Prophet Mohammed PBUH...we don't view 'guests' as outsiders as you falsely described! that is not at all what I meant. Guests are to be respected and honored, to be treated as if they were one of our own family members, but when someone abuses their welcome, that is where we draw the line and they should therefore expect to suffer the repercussions! Also, as you alluded Lisa has been here for many many years, even converting to Islam and marrying a khaleeji...that is precisely why she should have had a better understanding and awareness of what to say and choosing the right words! and from what I read of her previous online posts on QL and other places, she has criticized Qatar numerous times before and has gotten away with it scot free! so, I reiterate, it's not about foreigners not having any input or opinions about anything like you claim, because criticism is good and it happens here often, but HOW you say it!
I hope I clearly conveyed my point across...
Peace..
Reply
I do have quite a few non-Qatari friends who grew up in Qatar. The ones I've talked to about it DO very much feel like outsiders here. Just last week someone who grew up here was telling me they were glad their close friendship with a Qatari had ended, because they felt judged all the time and now don't believe it's realistic to try to be friends with a Qatari. It made me really sad to hear that. I'm not saying that person was justified in saying that -- I'm just saying that, actually, I think it's possible that more non-Qataris here feel alienated than you realize. (Of course, ones who feel alienated may be more likely to talk to me about it, so my sample may be skewed.)
Regarding treatment of foreigners, I guess the approaches I can best compare are the American and European approaches, since I'm both of those. :-) I'm not going to claim that either of my cultures is tremendously good at how it treats foreigners, but I think America is better at it than Europe. Europe wants to import cheap labor from Turkey, Morocco, etc., but without actually changing the society to accommodate the outsiders' views. (Just look at France's idiotic and xenophobic decision this week!) America, in contrast, has a tradition of incorporating waves of immigrants into its own culture (although also a tradition of being really mean to them before they assimilate, which is not so good). Comparing those two cultures makes me value that America has at least TRIED to incorporate outsiders, even though we also have often failed to live up to that ideal. I think that Qatar is trying to be more like Europe, to bring people in from everywhere but without letting them become Qatari. I have reservations about how effective that is, because I see it being so ineffective in Europe.
I certainly didn't mean to imply Qatar should thank its lucky stars for me or other expats. I'm here to do a job, and if I weren't do it someone else would be. I'm nothing special. What I was trying to get across is that I think you can create a more effective workforce if your workers feel like they matter to the larger community. So, it's in the community's interests to make people feel valued, so they will want to contribute. Maybe it's not always necessary. I once interviewed a construction worker who beamed and said, "I am making this city great!", even though the city rewards him by not allowing him to visit the malls or souq or corniche on weekends. But for a lot of us, at least, we can contribute more if we feel like our contributions and ideas are valued. So I was saying that, for me personally, this last month has made me feel less valued, and that makes it hard for me to give Qatar its money's worth. :-)
On a side note, thank you for posting! I know I'm being argumentative, because that's how I am, but I feel like I'm learning a lot from you.
Reply
Are Qataris right to be offended? Maybe, but the public life/private life distinction in Arab culture is there too - this is something accidentally slipping from one side of the curtain to another, done by someone they'll probably always see as an outsider, from a culture that has a somewhat thinner curtain than they do. Would Americans be offended at that? Maybe a bit (and American conservatives as a rule would probably be much more offended than American liberals).
Anonymous reader, are people who come to Qatar and marry a Qatari guests forever? When do they join the family (if ever)? Is it the tone of her criticism that's the problem, or that she offered criticism?
Reply
"have you for the most part have had bad experiences with Qatari's, or done anything to indicate that we treat outsiders/expats/foreigners with little value like you claim?"
I agree with you that WESTERN expats are usually treated as valuable. However, I've done quite a bit of research since moving here on the experiences of low-skilled laborers who come to Qatar, and, as a group, they are DEFINITELY treated as though they have as though they have little value. I'm not claiming every construction company mistreats its workers or every household abuses its nanny, but abuse is definitely rampant, and the legal checks on those abuses are, though improving, still paltry.
So what you say about treating guests well is almost always true when it comes to Westerners (as long as we don't say anything disagreeable), but I honestly don't think it's fair to say that MOST foreigners who come to Qatar are treated as valued and honored guests.
Reply
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